Testing agreement on the verge of breakdown...

[Sodemo]

According to Ralf Schumacher the testing agreement is about to collapse.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/4482895.stm

Can't recall where else I have read the story, but I think it was possibly a Renault or Toyota personel stating that its only a matter of time before teams break ranks.

Can't say im surprised.

I think they (the band of 9) perhaps thought that Ferrari wouldn't be so cut-throat and ruthless with their testing arrangements, and that they might have adhered to the previous testing ban for the week before a GP (maybe).

[Hazard]

That's code for Toyota realising they'll need to test to keep up.

Problem is it is a gentlemans agreement, and not a ruling Ferrari have even pretended they were going to follow. The fact all of the teams have abided by it in the hope they'd pressure Ferrari into following suit is over-optimtic...Ferrari can't afford to cut their testing - so unless they have to (regulations), they won't.

And since Ferrari is the only team committed to staying in F1, whilst everyone else threatens to walk away - can't see that happening.

so, bring on the testing!

[Marbot]

If only Ferrari stay in F1,then it wouldn't be F1.

[Wrex]

If your going to muscle Bernie, bring more fire power.

While I understand the motives of the 'gang of nine' (I thought it was down to 7 now), and even symathise to a certain degree, I have little tolerance for them trying to paint anyone that does'nt bow to them the bad guys (in this case, Ferrari).

This negotiating tool (thats all the gang on 9 are) to get more money is becoming embarrassing. There is alot more to it than the average fan is aware, or is even willing to accept.

I wonder, if Ferrari were expected to be romping off into the distance this season, would the gang of nine have made this agreement in the first place (the answer is no, as most of them have been anti-test lmitation in the past).

[Inigo Montoya]

There are other cracks too. In an interview with Brawn, he says that he's heard that the "gang of nine" can't agree on whether V8 testing should be covered in their little limited testing agreement:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=24207

And Hazard is right about it being a code for Toyota:

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/formul...ng-formula_one

[ttc]

Originally Posted by Nick Fry

"BAR have done more testing than any other team, but Ferrari have done 85% more miles than we have by totally ignoring the gentleman's agreement between the teams and putting themselves in a better position."

I find it extremely preposterous that any team is criticizing Ferrari at this time.

So far, Ferrari hasn't exceeded the 30days limit, YET. They probably won't stop after 30days, BUT they haven't exceeded the limit.

Who is Nick Fry to say how Ferrari should allocate their testing days?

So what if Ferrari has covered 85% more milage than BAR? Didn't BAR also covered >100% more milage than Minardi?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[Gt_R]

Indeed. Other teams really ought to shut up and stop dragging F1 through the mud. It's never going to work out if the likes of BAR, Mclaren and Renault decide not to turn up at FIA meetings.

I would think that an FIA organised meeting is more credible and official than some backroom meetings organised by Mr Ron or Mr Stoddart.

And yes, Ferrari have yet to exceed 30 days, quite funny you mentioned, because a team is free to allocate testing as they wish. Although i doubt Ferrari would stop at 30 days (and i hope they doesnt), technically speaking Ferrari havent' break the "agreement" yet.

And like Nick's said, it is a voluntary agreement proposed and agreed by 9 teams without consulting Ferrari...so there is absolutely no logic to blame Ferrari for not bowing to their demands. If Jordan and Minardi voluntary impose not using windtunnels, would Mclaren/Williams stop tomorrow?

[Bleu]

Well, the problem might be that as other teams made agreement, they thought that Ferrari would not test on race weeks (as they have done every time)

Let's say team tests 4 days every week when it's possible, and don't test on race weeks.

4 before Malaysia
4 before Bahrain
8 before San Marino
4 before Spain
4 before Monaco
0 before Europe
4 before Canada
0 before USA
4 before France
0 before Britain
4 before Germany
0 before Hungary
0 before Turkey (summer testing ban)
4 before Italy
0 before Belgium
4 before Brazil
4 before Japan
0 before China

That would give a total of 48 testing days.

[ralf fan]

Ho-hum... i really expected this to happen... a good race for Ferrari and claims of "hollow result" and "wouldve been a hollow win"....
it really could get very nasty unless the teams are following identical rules atleast....

The only reason this hasnt boiled over sooner is because Ferrari havent been doing well...

the current situation is unacceptable.... something needs to be done so every one has similar testing rules....

[Sodemo]

Don't understand why Ferrari don't sign up to the agreement, after all the agreement only covers in season testing, they could pound around Mugello and Fiorano all they want in the winter.

Ferrari should look at whats good for the sport and not just their own selfish interests.

[Don K]

I don't understand why the other teams expect Ferrari to follow their agreement.

Especially since they started building this "agreement" by coming together at a meeting where Ferrari was not invited ...

[Alex Hodgkinson]

...especially when the other team in question owns it's own race tracks.

[Gt_R]

It is simply politics.

[Wrex]

Can one of the statisticians add up the days Michilen and Bridgestone have tested?

[manwell]

I thought the FIA had the ability to impose rules without the agreement of all teams if its in the name of safety, as they have with reducing downforce and bringing in new V8 engines.

Well is it possible to introduce a testing ban in the name of safety?
.... the safety of F1 as a whole.
Because if this goes on much longer there wont be an F1.

I cant believe how arrogent Ferrari are. They are out to win the World Championship as all teams are, but they are willing to win it at any cost. Even if it means the downfall of F1.

[Wrex]

Manwell, what puts Ferrari in the wrong (following the rules to the letter) and the gang of nine in the right (making up their own rules and forcing anyone that disagrees to comply)?

[Marbot]

Neither are following the rules to the letter,since there was no rule to begin with.All they had was an agreement that allowed them to test equally throughout the season.

The agreement was altered without Ferrari input,however this occured after Ferrari had signed their concorde agreement and an FIA meeting mysteriously cancelled (December 2004).

So what as happened now is we have a situation where 9 teams are voluntarily limiting their testing,and 1 team is likely to exceed even the previous agreements maximum.

When the FIA can come up with a good enough reason as to why that meeting was cancelled,i will stop believing that the FIA and Ferrari are as one.

[Wrex]

Well truth be told, 6 teams are limiting testing, at least 3 of them would'nt hit the cap anyway.

Additionally, we dont know they will honor it any more than Ferrari. Neither camp has breached 30 days yet.

Wrex Prediction : The gang of nine will break ranks, go over 30 days, and blame Ferrari for it! The perfect crime

[Gt_R]

Yes, Wrex..i see that coming too... unfortunately.

Ferrari will be used as an excuse that they screwed up trying to screw Ferrari.

Did i hear people say how willing they are to sacrifice their own benefits for the better of the sports? Our qualifying NEEDS to be changed, Bernie wants the changes, it is the main source of confusion and bad state of F1 now.... and look who's blocking it?

Goes far to show how much political bullshyte those team bosses are trying to feed.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Wrex

Well truth be told, 6 teams are limiting testing, at least 3 of them would'nt hit the cap anyway.

Well you know... If Ferarri wanted to get on the good side of a couple of the teams mentioned above, they could always fund some tyre testing to be done by Minardi and Jordon.

Wouldn't cut into their days, not that they care. And it's not like the performace advantage would help Minardi or Jordon beat the Ferarri...


Ah, but to dream :P

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Wrex

If your going to muscle Bernie, bring more fire power.

It was Bernie who wanted the test limits in the first place!

[Jordi]

Sauber, Jordan and Minardi don't have these problems.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Well you know... If Ferarri wanted to get on the good side of a couple of the teams mentioned above, they could always fund some tyre testing to be done by Minardi and Jordon.

Wouldn't cut into their days, not that they care. And it's not like the performace advantage would help Minardi or Jordon beat the Ferarri...


Ah, but to dream :P

Great idea - and it would back up the notion that Ferrari are genuinely concerned about the lack of testing Bridgestone are getting, and keen to help F1 be more equal.

It will be interesting to watch as the season goes on as to whether Ferrari do exceed the 30-day test limit. At this rate, they will reach it by mid-season, by which time the other teams could be a long way behind on performance - the benefits of testing don't always take effect immediately anyway. If Ferrari had tested the same amount as everyone else so far this season, tehy would not have been fast enoguh to finish 2nd in San Marino.

The way some people are spinning this suggests that Ferrari can break a testing rule they hav e never objected to (not testing in the week before a Grand Prix) but everyone else has to stick to rules that all but one team is sticking to (the 30-day limit). The second Ferrari test on a 31st day is the day the championship becomes hollow, and so does the Imola result.

[Toth]

Is some team wants to voluntarily limit itself, be my guest and prepare to loose.

The FIA should penalise teams who refuse to test for failing to compete. McLaren (for example) has the funds to test, if they don't for whatever reason and suffer from it they effectively deliberately underperformed.

The FIA make the rules. All teams should obey. Maybe they should also penalise teams who try to impose their own rules on other teams.

(I realise the current concorde agreement gives teams the right to veto rule changes. I don't like that either.)

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Toth

The FIA should penalise teams who refuse to test for failing to compete. McLaren (for example) has the funds to test, if they don't for whatever reason and suffer from it they effectively deliberately underperformed.

I think that's the silliest thing that I've ever heard...

Lets fine Minardi for failing to compete. If Paul Stodart tried hard enough, surely he could find more money to fund more testing which would allow the team to compete with the rest of the field better. Therefore he must be failing to compete.

Garbage...