Gen IV

B/Mark · 19 Jul 2003, 21:58 (Ref:665896)

Panther are to run Gen IV at Michigan, Rice will run it at Gateway, then everyone gets it for Kentucky.

gttouring · 19 Jul 2003, 22:24 (Ref:665911)

the for-evy i mean Gen IV Cossie, GenIV indy chevy motor, hopefully it'll do well, Hornish was a great champ and hope he can keep out front. or even get there

evo · 19 Jul 2003, 23:50 (Ref:665951)

This is wholly unbelievable. Are we going to see Cosworth engineers with Chevy shirts at IRL races from now on? When they started throwing the idea around, I thought it was pretty amusing. Now I am just in shock.

marcus · 20 Jul 2003, 02:22 (Ref:665977)

I dont care where the technology comes from at all , just as long as it gives the Chevy guys a chance to get a bit further up the field.

B/Mark · 20 Jul 2003, 04:54 (Ref:666001)

Don't forget the Honda engine has never even seen Japan it's an Ilmor in real life!

evo · 20 Jul 2003, 07:20 (Ref:666023)

Well, it has seen Japan.

Sure it's an english motor, but Honda doesn't try to cover up the fact that Ilmor makes thier engine. And Ilmor isn't owned by one of Honda's more direct competitors, like Nissan or Toyota. Why would Ford allow Cosworth to make Chevrolet look good?

GoFaster · 20 Jul 2003, 08:59 (Ref:666048)

LEBANON, Tenn. -- Chevrolet's proof will be in the power next weekend at Michigan International Speedway.

That's when two-time defending Indy Racing League champion Sam Hornish Jr. will debut the Cosworth-built engine for General Motors, a program approved by league officials Saturday.

Indianapolis-based Panther Racing, for whom Hornish drives, will get the first chance because it is Chevy's flagship team and is the manufacturer's best team (eighth overall in IRL points).

After the Michigan race, the next-best team in IRL points -- likely Cheever Racing and driver Buddy Rice -- will join Panther in using the engine Aug. 10 in Madison, Ill.

If reliability and production issues are satisfied, the other four Chevy cars will get the model at the Aug. 17 race in Sparta, Ky.

IRL senior vice president Brian Barnhart said the multiweek rollout was approved to allow Cosworth the opportunity to try components in small quantities before mass producing the 20-some engines necessary to service the five teams.

Those teams have been at least 5 mph behind rivals using Toyota and Honda engines in the first half of the season.

No Chevrolet had led a lap until Hornish did Saturday night in the Firestone Indy 200 at Nashville (Tenn.) Superspeedway, much less won a race. Hornish had a Chevy-best fourth place in Richmond, Va.

"I'm looking forward to passing all of those Toyotas," Chevy team owner John Menard said. "It's not as fair (of a rollout) as what Brian could come up with, but it's fair in terms of going by points.

"We'll soon know if the power is there and everyone is happy. If the performance is not there, we'll know General Motors made a large mistake in going forward."

It is noteworthy that Chevy's new engine comes from Cosworth, which is owned by Ford. There will be no mention of Cosworth or Ford in official association with the engine.

Every IRL team had the opportunity during the off-season to choose between the three engine manufacturers. Coincidentally, all of the teams that chose Chevys were IRL veterans.

The biggest unknown about the engine design is its reliability. While Panther has tested it three times for about 1,000 miles, it has not competed at the levels required at such high-speed tracks as Michigan and Kentucky.

Rice, who finished five laps down at Texas despite running his engine wide open, is willing to take the chance. He, like other drivers in Chevy's camp, has been quietly fed up with the old model this season.

"I'd rather be right out front and contending if the engine grenades," Rice said. "At least everyone will know the situation."

Ron Hemelgarn said a competitive new engine will help team owners like himself attract companies for sponsorship for next season. The engine will be allowed through the IRL's equipment contract, which expires at the end of the 2005 season.

"Right now you've got to answer questions about why (the poor results)," Hemelgarn said. "Everybody wants to see results."

Barnhart acknowledged the unprecedented nature of allowing a manufacturer to switch engines in midseason. Such adjustments to equipment are more common -- and controversial -- in NASCAR, which has Chevy, Ford and Dodge to balance.

"But I think we're faced with unprecedented circumstances," Barnhart said. "Toyota and Honda have raised the bar for competition, and it's been clear all year long that General Motors has faced a performance deficiency."

FROM INDY STAR

BootsOntheSide · 20 Jul 2003, 09:12 (Ref:666054)

This mvoe could save the IRL's smaller teams and make it realistic for new saquads to enter in 2004. It's a shame Cosworth won't be taking any public credit for the engine, but people in the know will realise whose technology it is.

It's probably too late to save Sam's title, even if it were to be reliable in every race, but it will at least give the 5 Chevvy teams, all of whom have given the IRL great service over the years, some hope for the future.

oily oaf · 21 Jul 2003, 17:00 (Ref:667394)

Hornish tetsted the Gen 4 at Chicagoland and Kansas with some reports claiming an extra 6mph over the old lump (still not enough methinks). There could be a snag however, under IRL rules no new engines can be introduced mid-season but Brian Barnhart has said that if a car is under a severe disadvantage the rules could accomodate the change. Here's hoping.

Tim Northcutt · 21 Jul 2003, 17:20 (Ref:667409)

To Oily Oaf:

Saturday they announced that this is a done deal....Sam will have it for Michigan....and others will follow as noted above...

oily oaf · 21 Jul 2003, 18:05 (Ref:667467)

Thanks Tim. Those IRL boys never tell me anything u know

sgw2 · 21 Jul 2003, 19:29 (Ref:667552)

History of the Chevrolet-Coswrth IRL engine

http://www.cart.com/content/photos/2...0528P_0003.jpg

Ironic thing is this enegine was developed at the request of Chris Pook * (see note) for CART's 2003-2005 engine formula. Cosworth thought they could make an IRL and CART compatable engine, as TRD and Illmor intended to do, as did Judd. CART reversed course in July last year, so Illmor and TRD engines became IRL exclusive, Cosworth was shelved and Judd, less far along the devlopment and without an IRL partner sued CART.

When re-unification talks broke down Pook went hardline and accepted Forsythe's spec proposal, which was also supported by Cosworth's Bisco who did not have Ford backing at the time. It was designed to cut costs and allow Cosworth to get some funding. Had Cosworth been forced to develope the engine on their own, CART leases would have run in the millions per car. Chevrolet now is paying that devlopment cost.

Here is the press release of the Gen IV Chevy ... er make that Cosworth XF from CART.com last year (note Bisco expected Toyota/TRD to be in CART)

http://www.cart.com/News/Article.asp?ID=3401

* Pook claimed he was secretly telling Cosworth the turbo spec engine would be the engine; in reality Gerry Forsythe, who is very close to Ian Bisco, and who defused the Pook-Cosworth spat last month when the Chevy deal surfaced, is the real man behind CART's spec engine formula. He talked Pook into it after a long running conversation (another Robin Miller article which I'm looking up documents this).

Mopar · 21 Jul 2003, 21:43 (Ref:667696)

Quote:

Originally posted by evo
Well, it has seen Japan. Sure it's an english motor, but Honda doesn't try to cover up the fact that Ilmor makes thier engine. And Ilmor isn't owned by one of Honda's more direct competitors, like Nissan or Toyota. Why would Ford allow Cosworth to make Chevrolet look good?

Sorry Mercedes now own Ilmor that is why next seasons Honda engine will be completely new the link up with Ilmor was due to the fact that honda's decision to join the IRL was taken so late that it was inconcevable to produce a competitive engine from scratch. By Ford building an IRL engine for Chevy the technology and reserch put into the development of the stillborn FORD COSWORTH IRL engine is not wasted and also Chevy were in a desperate state therefore probably paid "though the nose" for the new engines

sgw2 · 21 Jul 2003, 22:01 (Ref:667713)

Mopar,

Illmor Honda deal runs through 2005. Robert Clarke said Honda will design a new engine after that. However, they may or may not continue with Illmor. The decision is Tokyo's not Ohio's. That is why Robert Clarke was so upset, when the announcement came of the Ilmmor deal, Tokyo walked all over his head.

Read the article I attached. Cosworth built the motor without Ford funding. It is far more common than you realize for subsidiaries of auto companies to make deals with competitors. Seems the negative GM reaction from the higher ups never materialized, nor did it in Ford. Business decisions pure and simple.

evo · 22 Jul 2003, 04:33 (Ref:667921)

Actually doesn't Roger Penske own part of Ilmor. And he's not running thier engine. So the dealings are all messed up.