European GP

[adstubbs]

So, was I the only person watching the GP today thinking, "no way would I be going out into that gravel trap"? With conditions that bad, a race stop seemed inevitable, although it takes a lot to stop a GP these days. Seeing an F1 heading backwards across the gravel towards the snatch tractor wasn't pleasant, especially as there were at least two people following the snatch vehicle across the gravel - reminded me of the infamous Oulton Park GT incident, with drivers basically having no control over their vehicles, and anyone coming over the barrier placing themselves at great risk. Easy to sit in judgment when you weren't there I suppose, but the guys at the Nurburgring were lucky today.

[Woolley]

I actually found myself shouting at the TV. Terrifying stuff. Obviously, I don't know the corner, so I don't know whether approaching while staying behind the barrier is possible there, but I hope I wouldn't have been running alongside them had I been there.

[TWRv12]

First corner was downhill into a lake, turn right.... Thought the snatch tractor was going to get collected when it came out of the gap on the corner exit, along way from where it got hit by the Torro Rosso. Safety car nearly got clobbered too!

Shades of Japan, when Brundle collected the marshal...

[adstubbs]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I actually found myself shouting at the TV.

Funnily enough, so did my girlfriend (fellow marshal), I just sat watching in disbelief, hoping I wasn't about to see people sent flying. One for the training day videos perhaps?

[brickkicker]

[QUOTE=adstubbs] reminded me of the infamous Oulton Park GT incident, with drivers basically having no control over their vehiclesQUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAvc0Cij7zA
This one

[mattt]

in the pit office at rockingham, watching it thinking im glad im not there
liuzzi was really close to clobbering the pace car, well done to the safety car driver for relising and moving else that would have hurt.
then it nosed the snatch viechle to that could have been nasty to that weather was terrible.
1 lap there was no water next there was a lake

[Eddy V]

Count me in for the shouting. I watched a F1 race for a change and saw those mad things.
But that is typical Nürburgring weather and typical crashes for that bit of track, as it slopes down a bit and leads into that cambered corner.
Usually, like now, a big lake crosses the road.

The snatch vehicule drivers must have been brave men, although the first one backed off after the first few offs. But the second one, coming from the other side of the gravel must have been crazy continueing like that. If that car had hit at the same speed as Liuzzi (??) the aftermath might have been very bad.

I've done crazy things in my days, but that would be a no-no.

[Alpha Charlie 6]

How soon will it be before Alonso causes a big accident?

[James Elder]

Dad and I were shouting at the TV too. At the start, they knew about the rain and it got worse rapidly, but by the time the safety car came out, it couldn't even get round the first corner itself. As people went off though, I realised one thing - all the cars have practiced in the dry and were therefore setup for that, but now it was wet and so they ended up more like powerboats. I'm glad it was eventually red flagged, although I did think it took too long to make that decision (easy to say in hindsight, but it did look silly at the time).

[Stack]

Along the same lines, I watched 4 marshals run across a live track at the bus stop at Mallory during the BSB round to a fallen rider who was in no need of assistance, just a jesture to get up on the bank. What made it worse, they seemed to be grabbing on to each other!

[thepits!]

Originally Posted by new marshal mat

in the pit office at rockingham, watching it

AHA! Caught you - so that's what you get up to when I'm not there


(I think I'll have to have a word with your dad when we next meet)

[garybirch]

I agree, while sitting at home watching in my nice warm living room, that I wouldn't be out there at all.

However, I wonder how many of us who say that would actually act differently in the heat of the moment?
If we're honest, maybe some of us would have been tempted to jump the tyres!

Mind you, I thought they were a bit quick to get the JCB out there, but it certainly paid off for Hamilton!

[MacGWC]

Nürburgring has its own special weather conditions but generally you can see the weather coming. Rain was obviously in sight by the time the race started. In which case, as a Clerk, I might have chosen to delay the start. No, not hindsight, I said so at the time and John Felix and I have done this on several occasions when Clerking TGP or EuroBOSS. No doubt TV scheduling influenced the decision otherwise but the race had to be stopped in the end and just as much time lost. My recording shut off just as Alonso was shaping up to overtake Massa!

[johngee]

I must admit that I also played the "if I was in race control what would I do now?" game. I'd love to have been a 'fly on the wall'

[Clive]

Originally Posted by Alpha Charlie 6

How soon will it be before Alonso causes a big accident?

Why pick on him? There were several drivers out there who all could have caused a major accident. Alonso's move over Massa was a good overtake and that's what racing is about, isn't it? (I assume that's what you are referring to?)

You should have seen some of the idiots on the A41 during Friday's downpour if you wanted to see some stupidity!

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by MacGWC

My recording shut off just as Alonso was shaping up to overtake Massa!

Phewwwww !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i`m glad i wasn`t the only one.

One other thing did strike me as strange.

When kimi broke down and came in to the pits,
whilst in pit lane,marshals came to his aid.

But a white flag was waved,
shouldn`t there been a yellow flag aswell ?

[gachjoel]

[quote=Clive]Why pick on him? There were several drivers out there who all could have caused a major accident. quote]

But what about when they changed tyres 8 or 9 laps to the end.

that was a close one for the pit lane and the mechanics would have taken the brunt of that.

[Woolley]

Well, we're moving away from marshallig here but...

Alonso pulled a brilliant move on Massa, as Hamilton did on Fisi earlier. No complaints about either. The pits incident was not Alonso's fault either. Unable to see backwards he relies entirely on his crew to signal it's safe to leave and when they do he goes. Frankly I reckon he did a good job of avoiding an incident once he was committed to going.

I did wonder about the white flag, but it's used differently in different countries, so I'd be interested to know if that was a) a local variation or b) brainfade.

Back to the subject:

If we're honest, maybe some of us would have been tempted to jump the tyres!

That one, I think I can honestly say no - subject to the design of the corner allowing you to proceed without doing so. If the design means it's the only option, in those conditions I hope I'd still say no.

I was shouting for a red flag too. I presume race director was watching the same coverage as I was, with the added benefit of being able to look out of the window too. Poor decision making IMO. They were very fortunate to avoid casualties.

[Clive]

Originally Posted by Woolley

.....I was shouting for a red flag too. I presume race director was watching the same coverage as I was, with the added benefit of being able to look out of the window too. Poor decision making IMO. They were very fortunate to avoid casualties.

me too. IMHO it sould have been called much earlier than even when the Safety Car was deployed. Agree poor decision by race control, and they were lucky!

[danccooke]

Dee and I first of all watched Qualifying, 57 seconds till someone got to Hamilton and that was an intervention unit. I can't think of a track that i have marshalled yet that there would be such a big gap that it would take a minute for a marshal to run to. Especially when it was a fairly big on.

And the race.....

There was some colourful language when the cars came piling into the gravel trap. Inspired driving by the Safety Car driver, that could have been a mess.
We also said that once it was safe to go into that gravel trap (which it certainly wasn't initially) i would have told Hamilton to cut the engine. Lucky it wasn't me, something to think about for future reference. We will have FPA and F3 drivers sitting in the gravel at druids wanting to be snatched out to the circuit with them still sat in the car.

[Woolley]

Not a problem with that, TBH. All I'm interested in is the quickest way of getting them out and away, and if they can drive off with a little assistance, then that helps me too. I'd rather the driver only switched off and got out because:

1) We told them too.
2) It's on fire
3) It's soundly stuffed and not going anywhere anyway.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Clive

Why pick on him? There were several drivers out there who all could have caused a major accident.

Liuzzi being the 8th driver to lose it at turn 1, over 1m20s after Button and 40s after his team mate was really a bit silly...

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by johnh875

Liuzzi being the 8th driver to lose it at turn 1, over 1m20s after Button and 40s after his team mate was really a bit silly...

come off it, no one with a dry setup was going to get round that corner once the water had started to pool in the corner and run down the straight. Even with wet tyres and setup that'd be almost impossible with the amount of water they had.

Did think the red was far too slow in coming out, but thats F1 and televised events for you. Like everyone else, i was screaming at the TV to stop the race - sometimes you feel safety of everyone on track is compromised just to keep a TV audience / company happy, but they were left with no option in the end.

Also reminded me of this one at Watkins Glen > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7xckY9KpEs

Just glad i wasn't there, i don't think my waterproofs would have coped!

[MacGWC]

In my opinion, the original sin was not to call for a delayed start. The rain could be seen clearly and appeared before the official "off". Less time would have been lost, fewer cars would have been damaged and marshals who were only trying to be helpful would not have been put at risk.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by thepits!

AHA! Caught you - so that's what you get up to when I'm not there


(I think I'll have to have a word with your dad when we next meet)

it was during the lunch break actualy
he was watching it to