ARDS Test

[Mark5000]

Hi
I'm looking to take my ARDS test in the next few months and wonder if anyone can advise the best place to do this.

My situation is that I have bought a Formula 5000 race car but have never been on a race track, I therefore need a few lessons in racing as well as just the licence.

Silverstone have suggested a 4 day course in a formula ford, due to it having a similar Hewland gear box as my car.

Initially I would just like to test my car, but eventually the Derek Bell trophy series is of interest to me.

Any thoughts and advice would be apprieciated

Mark Bird

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Mark5000

bought a Formula 5000 race car but have never been on a race track

but excellent stuff!

I have to say I'd be tempted to just do your ARDS test (at Silverstone or Mallory or...), then go testing in your F5000. And get some tuition after you've passed your ARDS. Perhaps a trackday before your ARDS in a roadcar, so you get a feel for driving on track first - the test isn't difficult.

[josvandeperre]

Tsk Tsk - tell us which F5000 car !

Graeme's above seems quite sensible - learn a bit about track driving first then start to learn your car - somewhere with lots of space so not Mallory but Silverstone or Bruntingthorpe even - the ARDS is fairly easy but they do tend to get booked up between March and June

[Mark5000]

Thanks for the advice.

The car is a one off Harris RH05, with Traco Chevey Engine. I am currently having its original wings fitted as they were missing for the last 20 odd years.

It is reasonably known in the UK, although I am keen to get any further history on it.

Thanks

Mark Bird

[Mark5000]

Sounds like good advice, it'll save a few quid as well!!!

Mark Bird

[Mark5000]

I can email a piccy of the car (Harris RH05 F5000) if you or anyone else is interested, especially if it would help me with history etc.

please send your email address if so?

Mark Bird

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by josvandeperre

the ARDS is fairly easy but they do tend to get booked up between March and June

Mallory had most of theirs booked up, so have put on extra dates between now and April, if that helps, Mark (next one 12th feb). Thruxton are booked up until March, Goodwood have one at beginning of March iirc, I didn't enquire at Silverstone.

[morgsamallock]

Mark, how near Silverstone are you we may be just around the corner!
Mallory would be my choice to, tuition seems to be a more difficult one to pin down, I've not had any yet but after a year pounding round feel i'd be able to do it justice, testing the car and getting up to speed under your own timescales can sometimes be easier,
morgan

[graeme]

P.S. Forgot to say - can I have a go?

[ianpearson]

Bit of ignorence here, but can you drive a F5000 in the derek bell trophy on national B with novice cross? All credit for giving it a go & i know the throtle goes both ways but it seems a tad extreme.

Mallory from my experience is best for ARDS course, I've known people leaving siverstone ARDS course with a very bad taste

[Mark5000]

Hi Ian

I thought the same as you as regards my choice of car but the chaps at the HSSC assure me that it is ok. I think I'll confirm this with them once again though?

I'll contact Mallory today regarding the ARDS test as you are not the only one with this impression of Silverstone... shame, cos I'm only 20 minutes away from it.

Mark Bird

[graeme]

Originally Posted by ianpearson

Bit of ignorence here, but can you drive a F5000 in the derek bell trophy on national B with novice cross?

Fair point - if not, you'd have to do 6 races in another car (or series - would BARC SE single seaters or the like let a F5000 car in or is there a capacity limit?). (Or 5 races and a day's marshalling).

[Simon Mason]

I'm maybe lighting the touch paper here, but it needs to be said!

The fact is an ARDS test is supposed to be just that, a test, a test of awarness, potential competance and understanding of a car at speed and its implications. Not a, how are you, Oh you want to go racing, well you seem like a nice chap and you can steer and brake Ok so off you go, you'll learn the rest!!!! .

At Silverstone it is a pure and simple geniune assesment of whether you are ready to go racing at the time of the test with guidance to help. The only down side to Silverstone is its a hard circuit to learn so shows up how much you do or don't understand about a car at speed. That has little or nothing to do with actually knowing the circuit but actually whether you really do have half an idea on what your doing on track.

Mallory on the other hand is a great track (I really like the place) but it is substantialy more simplistic in its driver approach and therefore makes it a much easier track to "get away with it".

This brings me to the final and primary point on ARDS tests and the most often ignored one. Once you have the license, you can test where ever you like in whatever you like but what if your basic driving technique is not good in the first place are you just going to pick this skill set up along the way. The number of down right stupid and avoidable incidents we see in racing suggest not, at least not cheaply

[graeme]

Originally Posted by Simon Mason

The only down side to Silverstone is its a hard circuit to learn

Actually, the ARDS tests at Silverstone are on the Stowe circuit, so not a hard circuit to learn...

[Mark5000]

Originally Posted by graeme

Fair point - if not, you'd have to do 6 races in another car (or series - would BARC SE single seaters or the like let a F5000 car in or is there a capacity limit?). (Or 5 races and a day's marshalling).

I'll ring the HSSC tomorrow and see what they say?

[Mark5000]

Originally Posted by Simon Mason

I'm maybe lighting the touch paper here, but it needs to be said!

The fact is an ARDS test is supposed to be just that, a test, a test of awarness, potential competance and understanding of a car at speed and its implications. Not a, how are you, Oh you want to go racing, well you seem like a nice chap and you can steer and brake Ok so off you go, you'll learn the rest!!!! .

At Silverstone it is a pure and simple geniune assesment of whether you are ready to go racing at the time of the test with guidance to help. The only down side to Silverstone is its a hard circuit to learn so shows up how much you do or don't understand about a car at speed. That has little or nothing to do with actually knowing the circuit but actually whether you really do have half an idea on what your doing on track.

Mallory on the other hand is a great track (I really like the place) but it is substantialy more simplistic in its driver approach and therefore makes it a much easier track to "get away with it".

This brings me to the final and primary point on ARDS tests and the most often ignored one. Once you have the license, you can test where ever you like in whatever you like but what if your basic driving technique is not good in the first place are you just going to pick this skill set up along the way. The number of down right stupid and avoidable incidents we see in racing suggest not, at least not cheaply

Are you saying that I would need to know the track on which I intend to take my test, in order to help me pass?

[Simon Mason]

Originally Posted by graeme

Actually, the ARDS tests at Silverstone are on the Stowe circuit, so not a hard circuit to learn...

Actually no they are on the Southern or the National unless you luck in and get a test on a day when other work is going on that was unplanned for. In which case the super easy Stowe is used about once a year.

[Robyn Slater]

I took my test on the GP circuit back in 2000. I,d recommend that you have some track time on the circuit that you taking your ARDS test on.

[Simon Mason]

Hello Mark, no I'm not saying you need to know the circuit but I am saying you need know how to impliment the fundamentals of high speed driving. A very suprising number of people don't, even with years of track days, successful rally driving and whatever else behind them.

The more tracks you've done ideally with a bit of instruction prior to your test, the easier it will be to pass anywhere regardless of track knowledge for the test.

[schomosport]

Sorry, no requirement to have fundamentals of high speed driving at all to pass when I took mine at Sneterton 10 years ago. Did I use my mirrors, was I on the right part of the track, could I respond to instruction from the examiner to my left. Was I aware of who else was on the track and around me? 3 laps only in a tired XR3. But, as the instructor briefed us as a group, don't worry about rev limits since you will all be braking far too early and then having to accelerate up to the corner again. He was right. No, this outing was purelyto see if we were likely to be acomplete danger to ourselves or others the next time we went out on the track as a licensed driver.

Bears absolutely no relation to my first single seater rce at Mallory in a 2l car (after maybe 20 saloon car outings) and having the quick guys come round Gerrards maybe 20mph faster. Eye opening but you adapt.

[johngee]

Hi Mark
You and your car will be very welcome at HSCC meetings in the Derek Bell Series and just to confirm that they will be run under a Nat B permit. Don't forget that you'll have to attend a 'first time' drivers briefing at EACH circuit that you race on for the first time - test days don't count. If you need any other advice, from my perspective, please ask or PM me. HSCC clerks are not frustrated traffic wardens (LOL), we're here to help!

[Peter Mallett]

Just a thought from us oldies. I never took an ards test and (well you can make your own mind up about my racing skills or lack thereof).

However there is a point that maybe hasn't been emphasised enough. A F5000 car is a beast and my advice would be to get some time in a lesser powered single seater first. Not because you'd be dangerous but because you need to get your expectations set to a realistic level. There's nothing worse for the spirit than leaping into a powerful car and not knowing how to make it work!

Saying that I wish you all the best for your endeavours and look forward to seeing you out there.

As to the history of your car. Pop into the Historic Racing and Racing History forum and see what you can find.

[R59]

Firstly, I just love F5000 cars. You can feel them !!!

Simon knows just a little about ARDS tests (how many billy's have you examined?), and I can concur with the comments that the test is not of your, per se, ability, but your competence on the track, and more importantly, would it be safe to unleash you onto the circuits of the world. I've seen, and heard of, some absolutely dreadful so called would-be drivers who think that they were entitled to a race licence, where if I had my way, they'd be better handing their RTA licence in at the nearest police station and save the rest of humanity!

Jumping from a saloon doing your ARDS, into a F5000, in my opinion would not be a good thing to do.

If you can afford to purchase such exotica, and run it, you should be thinking about doing the race intensive course at Silverstone. In my opinion, the best instructors work there because they have very high standards, and as many of them are well respected drivers in their own right who really "do know". No disrespect to my other colleagues around the UK's other circuits, but how many British F3 front runners, work at your circuit, or former multiple BTCC Champions, and international GT/LeMans drivers?

Also bearing in mind the car's characteristics, I would also have a session on their skidpan. Learn to drive it sideways, catch it when grip says "no", etc.. or you'll be taking it home in a tipper, not a car trailer!

As one of my esteemed colleagues said to me, when learning about my latest car...
"nice knowing you".

Rob.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Robyn Slater

I took my test on the GP circuit back in 2000. I,d recommend that you have some track time on the circuit that you taking your ARDS test on.

I'd take that further and recommend tutored laps. If you just go out and lap on your own you may pick up bad habits from inexperience.

[Mark5000]

Hi Rob

Thanks for the reply...

Have booked the race intensive course today... so look forward to doing it in March.

I've had a look on your web site at your car, it looks extremely useful.

Can I ask you if I can use some of your pictures on my Race Car Gallery website (address as on shown on my profile) as it's a great article.

Many thanks

Mark