The new Qualifying procedure.

**Adam43** · 9 Nov 2002, 18:42 (Ref:425207)

How does the procedure work?

This is my understanding.

Friday Qualifying: Out lap, Timed lap, In lap.
This determines the order of Saturday's qualifying.

Saturday Qualifying: Out lap, Timed lap, In lap.
The slowest driver on Friday goes first, the fastest last. This determines the Grid for Sunday's race.

The order on Friday is determined by championship order. However what happens at the first race? What is the order of all the drivers who haven't scored a point or are tied?

What are the order of the practice sessions? Is the first session of the weekend the extra free practice for teams that do less that 10 days testing elsewhere?

Also how will the cars get ready for qualifying. Will there be more than one car on track at once (someone going out on another's slowing down lap?) or will we have to wait for the cars to get back to the pitlane before another (waiting at the end of the pitlane?) is let out? How long will this take?

3 laps can take 5minutes (more at a long circuit like Spa, oh wait that won't be a problem

). 20 cars, 5 minutes. That's 100 minutes overall. Perhaps they hope that they can get it down to just over 3 minutes (if more than one car on track at once). But it looks like this will still take over an hour - especially if someone throws it off track).

Has there been an official announcement on this (have I missed this)?. Have I made a mistake in the above?

How will it work?

Dave Brand · 9 Nov 2002, 19:48 (Ref:425254)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Also how will the cars get ready for qualifying. Will there be more than one car on track at once (someone going out on another's slowing down lap?) or will we have to wait for the cars to get back to the pitlane before another (waiting at the end of the pitlane?) is let out? How long will this take?

The way it works at superbikes, where F1 stole the stupid idea from

is that there are three bikes more or less equally spaced around the circuit at any any given time, one on his out lap, one on his flying lap & one on his in lap.

Wrex · 10 Nov 2002, 00:09 (Ref:425366)

I believe as one car crosses the start line on his flying lap, the next car follows on is warm up. This should (in theory) keep them well within the hour.

As for a crash, your probably right. But thats the same now is'nt it.

As for everthing else, I think your on the money.

Tristan · 10 Nov 2002, 01:05 (Ref:425415)

It's not going to work on telly. It might work in terms of making the grid look exactly the same, but it won't work on telly. So, in conclusion, who gives a flying toss??

twig · 10 Nov 2002, 02:01 (Ref:425447)

I think they will sort out the drivers who were either equal or new, by the team's final result or even go back to whatever number the car is. What i am confused or ****ed about is the 107 percent rule. Are they still going to keep that rule, i am sure they will abolish it once JPM spears of the track once or twice, not allowing him to race.

Tom.

mac · 10 Nov 2002, 02:16 (Ref:425449)

I think you'll be surprised Tristan. It certainly works at Bathurst. There is so much more drama and tension. Instead of focusing on 20 different cars at the same time, you can focus on one. Plus drivers can't blame traffic if they don't qualify well.

I like it.

f1grandprixshop · 10 Nov 2002, 02:34 (Ref:425457)

so, how many qualifying laps will each driver be allowed to their qualifying? Last season's rule is 12 laps right? how about the new rule?

Gt_R · 10 Nov 2002, 02:43 (Ref:425460)

Yeah...its better for the sponsors isn't it? With Mclaren and Williams recently announcing their sponsors opting to leave, the new qualifying surely gives them more exposure and value for $$

**Adam43** · 10 Nov 2002, 08:53 (Ref:425515)

We will get to see the all of each drivers qualifying lap (presumably!). So I suppose the directors now have an easier time of it. Hopefully there will we no more scream at the telly "He's on a slowing down lap, show me whoever because he's on a flyer". Having said that I bet the director will still show someone milling around in the pits when the people lower down aer running.

But in theory it should give more exposure to the team's lower down.

So it might be good on telly. However Qualifying was really exciting anyway.

twig, I think you are probably right. So for the first race will they go out on Friday in number order? (which is, generally, determined by last years championship order). I would prefer something that isn't determined by last year - a fresh start. What happens in 'bikes?

Red · 10 Nov 2002, 09:00 (Ref:425519)

The first friday qual will start in this season championship standings order. I mean Michael Schumacher goes first, second Rubens, etc.

**Adam43** · 10 Nov 2002, 09:20 (Ref:425526)

What about new drivers? How do they decide their order (constructors championship from last year? - i.e. car number?).

Wrex · 10 Nov 2002, 09:31 (Ref:425532)

I do have one question regarding qualifying though.

If a driver has a failure (like a blown engine), and this upsets following drivers runs, will that driver be penalised.

Example 1: Driver x does his hotlap, and then his engine leaves a trail of oil over the track slowing the remaining 3 drivers, and gets pole. Is this fair?

Example 2: Driver 1 of team B does his hotlap, and then (with the marvels of 2 way telemetry) his engine leaves a trail of oil over the track slowing driver 1 team A from snatching pole.

Will there be pealties for this happening?

Red · 10 Nov 2002, 09:58 (Ref:425548)

Adam, goo question. I don't know. My guess is that they'd start... I was about to say last... that is 'first', the most disadvantageous position... but the whole idea (idea is not the word, the notion of idea involves thinking and logical reasoning) is to 'shuffle the deck'. Heck, I don't know, perhaps the car numbers might do the trick. The lower the number, the worse car it is, and you take most of the advantage on friday. :confused:

Wrex, good question too. Example 1. Of course is not fair, but what's fair in the real world anyway. And that was the kind of risk that they faced with the past qual system; the difference is that they could have another couple of runs left. But again, this hypotetical situation does only 'good' to the 'show'. Just imagine the big 6 primadonnas all spinning on oil left by Jenson Button (who just broke his engine on the slow down lap) and all of them forced to start the race from the back of the grid. What a race... correction, what a show.

Mark Webber · 10 Nov 2002, 10:38 (Ref:425573)

I like the idea and I belive that a few dark horse's will come through ie Mr Turlli and JV as well as Fisi (if jordan can make a good car ) next years grid will look alot different I think .
One question how many laps does a driver get in total 3 or is it still 12?

Wrex · 10 Nov 2002, 10:42 (Ref:425575)

Only 1 flying lap (an out lap, a flyer, an in lap) like the shootout at Bathurst or Superbikes.

twig · 10 Nov 2002, 11:38 (Ref:425641)

just wondering, if the order of the first shootout on friday is by championship standings at the end of 02 championship. Is that only for Aus GP? and say at malaysia will was have the order decided through current championship standings for 2003 at the time?

Brushpusher · 10 Nov 2002, 11:44 (Ref:425654)

Why not just draw drivers names out of a hat giving a random grid?

**Adam43** · 10 Nov 2002, 11:45 (Ref:425657)

I think that for every other race the order on Friday is determined by the current championship standings. For Malaysia this will just be the reverse of the finishing positions?

Lots of drivers won't have scored points so, presumably (?), the tie break that the FIA already uses will come into force. Guy with the highest finish is ahead? This then provides an interesting situation:

If you are in seventh on the last lap (with no hope of getting sixth) then do you just park it and lose lots of positions so that you can attempt Friday's qualifying later in the order (in the theoretically quicker slot?). A small point, but...

Wrex · 10 Nov 2002, 11:57 (Ref:425666)

No way. 7th gets points next year Adam, but I know what your saying.

Imagine getting to the end of the year tied for points with another team, and that 7th would have gained you $2million bucks.

**Adam43** · 10 Nov 2002, 12:03 (Ref:425670)

D'oh, oh yeah. 9th then. But you are right, that 9th could knock you up if you are tied in a draw.

Valve Bounce · 10 Nov 2002, 12:11 (Ref:425676)

First of all, if there is oil spilled on to the track, then the oil should be soaked up with cement or lime dust, then the dust swept off with mechanical brooms before the next guy comes out. Actually there is an extremely effective powder that the MMBW used for their workshop floors, but I don't know what it is - that was many many years ago. I was told it was very similar physically and chemically to crushed egg shells. Probably some sort of finely crushed limestone.

Secondly, I think the excitement will be increased greatly if there are more splits around the circuit, and if the computer can immediately show that a time deficit (say +.06) would put that car ahead of say the 5th car on the grid at that point, so that we know where the car is potentially all the way round the track.

Osella · 10 Nov 2002, 12:51 (Ref:425699)

I'm looking forward to the new qualifying system- this is a good idea, the alternative would be to have had unlimited laps (which I would also like). Don't think this'll knock Michael off his perch though, this system could give him pole all year. He's easily quickest 'blind' over one lap. JPM, no slouch himself, seems to need to work himself up a bit. Maybe that'll change for 2003! I can see the 107percent rule giving some people a hard time though!

Sodemo · 10 Nov 2002, 17:25 (Ref:425808)

Better still, after a drivers run (cough) -(Rubens), on his slowing down lap, I wonder what will be going through the Ferrari teams mind; "hhmm lets just push this little button here" and whoops his engine has blown laying oil everywhere, sorry everyone!

Yoong Montoya · 10 Nov 2002, 19:09 (Ref:425848)

Quote:

Originally posted by The Monster
Better still, after a drivers run (cough) -(Rubens), on his slowing down lap, I wonder what will be going through the Ferrari teams mind; "hhmm lets just push this little button here" and whoops his engine has blown laying oil everywhere, sorry everyone!

You mean (cough) - (Michael) don't you?

pole2pole · 10 Nov 2002, 19:47 (Ref:425867)

I cant wait to see this new prcedure in action. The saterday qualifying will be thilling to watch and as we have seen many times before the track temperature can change at anytime during the qualifying session which will play a big part for the grid positions. This makes it like a lottery and thats the way it should be and i hope that the recent reports that some of the bigger teams can build qualifying cars will be banned from the word go because if this is allowed then we will be back to square one again. The only concern i have is ferraris control over bridgestone i can see these two designing something special to aid there chances of getting pole

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