Porsche 956/962

[Thundersports]

Surprised no one has researched these iconic beasts.........
Not that i'm an officianardo though!

[John Turner]

Iconic indeed, and I'm sure they have been researched, just not here .... yet! This goes into the main forum until there is sufficient proper info. to warrant its place in the archive.

[allenbrown]

Martin Krejci has done a lot of work on these cars:

Porsche 956

Porsche 962

I think John is right to put this into the main forum. If someone is already actively researching a subject and publishing their information on the web, it's better that we support rather than appear to compete.

Allen

[Tim 27]

Amazed to read that the chassis 962-110 in which Manfred Winkelhock died also claimed the life of Jo Gartner in its rebuilt 962-118 guise.

[rcarr]

Bloody hell, why didn't they just bin it after Winkelhock's death?

That chassis must've had a curse on it from day 1!

[Al Weyman]

A friend of a friend owns one and is restoring it, I did a replica onboard computer display overlay for it last year with cutouts for the keys, I believe my friend is going to get to drive the car at Goodwood and places like that when finished, I will try to find out more.

[fausto]

Originally Posted by Tim 27

Amazed to read that the chassis 962-110 in which Manfred Winkelhock died also claimed the life of Jo Gartner in its rebuilt 962-118 guise.

I doubt it's the very same tub, though....

[Thundersports]

Have to say I was a bit "disturbed" by chassis 110/118 had heard a rumour years ago but didn't think it was true. Anyone got a pic of the Wreckage of Winkelhocks car that would make it easy to establish if they used the same tub. Seen a pic of the car after Gartners Mulssanne accident; very much scrap...........

[rcarr]

Supposedly Winkelhock's car after the crash:

http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mw30jb.jpg

[Alan Raine]

I took this pic the day before. Same car but Marc Surer driving.

[Thundersports]

MMMMM! Seen worse straightend out but you can't see enough of the tub to judge it.

[rcarr]

By the looks of things the footwell looks a bit bent, I certainly wouldn't be happy driving down the Mulsanne at 230 mph knowing that someone had been killed in the very seat that I am sitting in! Trying to steer straight!

[Jesper OH]

About a year ago I started a bit of research, mainly to find out how many of these cars were ever produced. Looking back I got from 1982-1986 and by that time I had given up on establishing how many ecxamples that were produced, and perhaps rather trying to establish how many cars were actually around at any given time. By that time the first 956s were retubbed with new chassis numbers as well as 956s were rebuild into 962s to confuse matters further.

As a side note to the Winkelhock/Gartner curse, did you know that both drivers shared a BMW 635CSi at Spa 24h 1985 with Belgium Hervé Regout? Manfred was dead within weeks of Spa, while Jo went the same way 10 month later. Don't know about the fate of Hervé, but hopes the best for him.

Jesper

[rcarr]

Hervé Regout, was alive certainly upto 97, driving a Debora in sportscar races, he was 3rd at Le Mans in 87.

[Jesper OH]

Nice to hear rcarr. Then Regout was part of the Primagaz Courage squad IIRC.

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

1982 teams:

-Porsche AG (D): chassis’ 001, 002, 003, 004 during a season of FIA WSCC, German Rennsport Meisterschaft and a non-championship race at Kyalami, South Africa.

That should account for four cars running at the end of the year.

1983 teams:

-Porsche AG (D): chassis’ 003, 004, 005, 007, 008, 009 during a season of FIA WSCC, European Sports Car Championship, German Rennsport Meisterschaft and a non-championship race at Norisring, Germany.
Customer chassis 107 used for TAG Porsche tests.

-Kremer Porsche Racing (D): chassis 101 for WSCC, DRM and Norisring.

-John Fitzpatrick Racing (GB): chassis’ 102 and 110 for WSCC, EECC, DRM, Norisring and Can-Am(!)

-Preston Henn (USA): chassis 103 for mid-season WSCC and ESCC. Then sold (?) to Alpha Racing (J) for late Fuji WSCC.

-Joest Racing (D): chassis 104 for WSCC, ESCC, DRM, Norisring and Interserie. Marlboro colours for the international events and Warsteiner for the nationals it seems.

-Dieter Schornstein (run by Joest?) (D): chassis 105 for WSCC, ESCC, DRM, Norisring and Interserie. All in all this car had 15 starts during the season.

-Richard Lloyd Racing (GB): chassis 106 for WSCC, ESCC and Norisring.

-Nova Engineering (J): chassis 108 for All-Japan Sports Car Championship, Fuji Long Distance Series and WEC.

-Hans Obermaier (D): chassis 109 for WSCC, ESCC, DRM and Norisring. This chassis was running on it’s fourth season in 1986.

-Walter Brun (A/German Team): chassis 111 for WSCC, ESCC, DRM, Norisring and Interserie.

-Matsuda Conection (or should it be Collection?): chassis 112 for Fuji WSCC and then put away at the Matsuda Collection Museum.

6 cars raced by the factory/11 cars delivered to customers and raced.

[Jesper OH]

1984:

-Porsche AG (D): chassis’ 003 (now with PDK transmission), 004, 005, 009 and 010 used in WSCC, All-Japan Sports Car Championship and DRM. Chassis 956-007 run by Richard Lloyd in Rothmans colours as a camera car, but owned by Porsche. One car for Henri Toivonen at a Nordic Super Saloon race at Ahvenisto Hämenlinna, Finnland in lightly disguised Finlux Hi-Fi colours – unknown chassis.
Then there’s 962-001 used for the Daytona 24h IMSA-race – only race ever.

A new batch of customer cars delivered as Porsche 956B, chassis’ 113-118 – 6 cars in all. Porsche 962, chassis’ 101-105 – 5 cars in all. So a total production of 11 customer cars for 1984?

Kremer Porsche Racing (D): chassis 101 for WSCC. Rented by Walter Brun (CH) for a few races. Sold to From A Racing (J) by the end of the year.
Porsche 956B-115, new for 1984. Raced in WSCC, DRM and Norisring.

John Fitzpatrick Racing (GB):
Porsche 956-102 for WSCC, DRM and Norisring. Entered as Team Australia for Le Mans.
Porsche 956-110 for WSCC. Entered as Team Australia for Silverstone, and by Charles Ivey for Le Mans. Owned by Fitzpatrick?
Porsche 956B-114 for WSCC, DRM and Norisring.
Porsche 962-105 for WSCC and DRM. Car converted from IMSA to Group C spec.

Preston Henn (USA)
Porsche 956-103 for WSCC. So he didn’t sell at the end of 1983! Only raced it at Le Mans, then the car appeared at Suzuka for a round of the All-Japan Sports Car Championship entered by From A Racing, and finally at Fuji for the WSCC/A-JSCC race, now as a Nova Engineering entry.
Porsche 962-104 for Le Mans and the IMSA finals at Daytona. This must have been the car entered at Norisring as well, but it was a DNA.

Joest Racing (D):
Porsche 956-104 for WSCC, DRM, Norisring and Interserie.
Porsche 956B-117 for WSCC, DRM, Norisring and Interserie. Debuted with a victory at Le Mans!

Dieter Schornstein (D):
Porsche 956-105 for WSCC, DRM, Norisring and Interserie.

Richard Lloyd (GB):
Porsche 956-106 for early WSCC
Porsche 956GTi-106B for late WSCC. The first non-factory built 956.

Nova Engineering (J):
Porsche 956-108 for A-JSCC. Written off at Fuji in early June.
Porsche 956B-118 for A-JSCC. Rebuilt from remains of 956-108, so two chassis numbers, but only one car.
Porsche 956B-113 for A-JSCC.

Hans Obermaier (D):
Porsche 956-109. Another season of WSCC, DRM and Norisring.

Walter Brun (CH/D):
Porsche 956-111 for WSCC, DRM and Norisring.
Porsche 956B-116 for WSCC, DRM and Norisring.

Bruce Leven (USA):
Porsche 962-101 for IMSA, first race at Riverside April 29th.

Bob Akin (USA):
Porsche 962-102 for IMSA, first race at Charlotte May 20th.

Al Holbert (USA)
Porsche 962-103 for IMSA, first race at Charlotte May 20th.

Summary of the customer chassis’:
This means that 10 of 12 Porsche 956s saw action during 1984. By the end of the year probably only 8 of these were race ready. The Lloyd 956-106 was probably cannibalised to built their own 956GTi-106B, as it was sold to Walter Brun as spares. Then there is the Nova 956-108, that was rebuilt into 956B-118.
6 956Bs saw similar action during 1984.
1 956GTi produced and raced by Lloyd.
All in all this should account to a maximum of 15 956/956B/956GTi’s at any given time during 1984.
5 962s delivered and raced.

Jesper

[Alan Brown]

Another listing is the registry shown on 962.com. I know nothing about its sources. It also lists 917 models and intends to list 935 models.

[Thundersports]

Going to have a "driftwood" moment now! I know where chassis 138 the TLD car was hiding up to 1998 not sure it is still there. It was in secure storage in Maidstone Kent after being seized by a "financial recovery" company it was in pretty poor condition with no engine.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Tim 27

Amazed to read that the chassis 962-110 in which Manfred Winkelhock died also claimed the life of Jo Gartner in its rebuilt 962-118 guise.

That's an absolutely shocking fact to learn. I had no idea. How much did a new 962 run back in the mid-1980s ? You would have thought that surely some things would transcend finances.

[funformula]

Originally Posted by Tim 27

Amazed to read that the chassis 962-110 in which Manfred Winkelhock died also claimed the life of Jo Gartner in its rebuilt 962-118 guise.

The Team Kremer bought monocoque 962.114 from Porsche to replace the destroyed 962.110
They built it up into a complete car in their own workshop in Cologne, probably using parts from the old car.
Tub 962.110 was later examined to find out the reason for the accident.

[Tim 27]

Originally Posted by funformula

Tub 962.110 was later examined to find out the reason for the accident.

And then rebuilt as chassis 962.118 as Martin Krejci's list indicates?

[davyboy]

Frightening if it was, particularly because the cause of Gartner's accident was said to be the result of mechanical failure... a gearbox seizure I believe.

[allenbrown]

I don't believe the monocoque was rebuilt. The changed number implies the car was built/rebuilt on a new monocoque but that some parts of the crashed car may have been used thus giving the continuity that Martin mentions.

Allen

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

A friend of a friend owns one and is restoring it, I did a replica onboard computer display overlay for it last year with cutouts for the keys, I believe my friend is going to get to drive the car at Goodwood and places like that when finished, I will try to find out more.

Just spoke with my pal and apparently this chap owns two that he is renovating, he could not remember the name of the 2nd one but the first one was the Leyton House sponsored car.