New Resuscitation guidelines

[Jim Lamb]

As it's that time of year when thoughts turn to training I thought that the following information may be of Interest to those of you with First Aid Training and also the Rescue/Medical types for the Advanced stuff

The Resuscitation Council have revised the number and ratio of Breaths to Chest Compressions for CPR. See http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/bls.pdf.

For the advanced stuff i.e. With Jump Leads!!! See http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/als.pdf

The Main site is http://www.resus.org.uk/SiteIndx.htm

Regards,

Jim

[Mark Mitchell]

Hmmm - Interesting but shouldn't be taken as gospel.
Quite a few inaccuracies in here too.
The protocols used for CPR will vary within each Hospital and Ambulance Service Trust.

Our Service protocol (Proved to be the most successful in the UK) differs dramatically from what TRC have come up with and from other Services across the UK.

However, THE single most important thing to remember is that whatever you do to assist someone who may have arrested is a million times better than doing nothing.
You can't kill someone by performing CPR - at whatever ratio, but by not doing anything certainly will.
CPR is one of the most simple actions of BLS, but unfortunately not everyone is willing to have a go.

Good post Jim

[deadsquirrel]

Are these guys doing it right then?


http://www.jokeemail.com/pictures/polish_medics.htm

[flagwaver]

deadsquirrel, my only concern is that they may have slightly over extended the neck!

[Matt Dillon]

Thanks Jim.

Everytime I do my First Aid At Work refresher everything has change. So its like doing it all again.

[docdave]

looking at these guidelines the only real change is the number of chest compressions to ventilations, this is probably increasing as it has been known for some time that chest compressions move enough air to ventilate the patient on their own. As was said earlier as long as you do something the actual number of compressions to ventilatiions is a bit academic, and all these new guidelines confusing.

[Rich D]

Interesting - I always found this confusing when in the UK, as every time I lerned or refreshed CPR (from cub scouts onwards, every few years), the numbers changed. Then when I emigrated, they changed again (only to be expected, across the pond).
But, funnily enough, the numbers taught here in Canada, by several providers, have remained constant for the last 10 years - so is it a British thing to have to keep tweaking?
Anyway, as has been stated, something is better than nothing, and you can do no damage as they are dead already....the only way is up!

[resusman]

Science moves on, the old guidelines have been mostly the same since 1997 in the UK, they spread to Europe in 1998 then global in 2000. They still work.

The new guidelines are simpler to teach both to lay people & health care professionals. The emphasis is on quality CPR as that is the only circulation in cardiac arrest.

Defibrillation strategy has changed to a single shock, not a stack of three, then more CPR.

Starting CPR is simple, unresponsive, open airway, breathing normally then recovery position, not breathing normally, then 30 chest compressions & 2 quick breaths.

Landmark to push? Hand on middle of chest (see page 3 Sun) put other on top & push hard & fast.

It will take some time to train everyone in healthcare to use the new guidelines. They only came out on Tuesday onto the net. The BMJ has a summary in today's issue, so it is the first most docs have seen.

My A&E is already applying Guidelines 2005 in the resus room & I taught third year med students this morning. Another group of care workers got the new basic life support on Wednesday

Written stuff won't be around for a while. Defibs will need reprogramming.First aiders will need to follow their organisations guidance on the uptake.

All training materials are being re-written. That will take time. ILS/ALS courses will teach the new stuff from April.

So don't panic Mr Mainwaring, as my new defib says in an awful Yankee accent "Stay calm, Apply CPR, Stay calm"

[blackx]

Originally Posted by docdave

looking at these guidelines the only real change is the number of chest compressions to ventilations

This is something that seems to change as often as the weather isnt it?
It is always good to have the "current" preferred method known though..
thanks Jim....
You may have hung up your boots but still you are the fountain of knowledge

[Jim Lamb]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

Our Service protocol (Proved to be the most successful in the UK) differs dramatically from what TRC have come up with and from other Services across the UK.

Staff's always have been a bit leading edge, suspect that's due to Anton van Dellens' influence?

Would be interesting to see what Staff's recommend to compare with the Resus Council. Any chance Mark?

A bit off topic for Marshalling I suppose? But relevant from the Rescue side.

Originally Posted by blackx

You may have hung up your boots but still you are the fountain of knowledge.

No Steve, still got the Boots and Keeping my Knowledge very current, esp' the Medical side. As you can see, LOL .
I seem to have dealt with one too many RTA's this last year, due to spending a lot of time on the road . It pays to keep the training going, you just never know when you might need it.


R's Jim.

[Tim Falce]

Sorry to barge in on this but does all this go for us mere mortals who have only ever been on basic first aid courses.
I seem to remember being told to do 5 compressions to 1 breath or was it 10 to 1? Maybe I should take a refresher.
Whatever it is, the thing I was told to do first if I find anyone who was not breathing and with no pulse is to dial 999.
I know this isn't quite the same as being on a race track where you would have doctors near by but I am interested to know if I am on the right track so to speak.

[Woolley]

It applies to everyone, falcemob. These are the recommended guidlenes following latest research. 5:1 works, 30:2 is suggested to work better (certainly sounds less taxing). As has been said before - anything you do will help. As long as oxygen is getting around the body and to the brain, the patient is less dead than if it isn't, and a less dead patient gives the medics a better chance. Which leads to your other point - you need to make sure medics are coming before you do anything else because the best you can hope for without equipment is that the patient is no worse than when you found them. So yes, dialling 999 - or better still, getting someone to do it for you while you get on with CPR - is always the first step .

[JohnD]

My thanks to Jim for putting this up. A very keen trainee doctor asked me, did I know that the guidelines were about to change, and I was able to quote them to him. Improved no end the theatre cred of this senior member of the dept!
JohnD

[Jim Lamb]

Originally Posted by JohnD

My thanks to Jim for putting this up. A very keen trainee doctor asked me, did I know that the guidelines were about to change, and I was able to quote them to him. Improved no end the theatre cred of this senior member of the dept!
JohnD

LOL, Good one John.

If he's keen, have you tried engaging him for some 'Trackside Practical'? I'm sure a Rescue Crew somewhere could take him in and corrupt him in the appropriate manner!!

Rgrds Jim

[Richard Sneader]

As a trainer for one on the largest First Aid training providers in the UK working in there largest/busiest territory I hopefully can shed some light on this subject. Also I am a member of the Resus Council as an accociate member.
I was aware of these changes coming in for a while but untill all was published now I know what is coming out. I think in First Aid land the changes will not appear untill the edition 9 Tri Service manual is released as this tends to be the bible in First Aid. At present we have no instructions to start teaching the new guide lines yet but that may change. Also there is seruios goings on as to changing the current format of the Traditional 4 day FAW course as alot of issues have been raised over the years. If I find any more out I will post the details.
Regards,
Rich.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Jim Lamb

Staff's always have been a bit leading edge, suspect that's due to Anton van Dellens' influence?

Would be interesting to see what Staff's recommend to compare with the Resus Council. Any chance Mark?

I do believe our protocols changed again last week and have not yet seen a copy of the SOP.
I'll see what I can get tomorrow and transcribe it on here.............but it will probably change again by the end of the week!

[resusman]

The three Voluntary Aid Societies (SJA, St Andrews & BRCS) will revise the 8th edition (current) first aid book & use the new guidelines by 1 August 2006. (Source:Info put out to trainers in SJA on Friday).

Apart from the leak by the Yanks which was pulled back quickly, there was a world-wide embargo on the guidelines until the electronic release last Tuesday.

Printed guidelines won't come out until later this month. If you take the European Journal of Resuscitation (yawn) all 186 pages of guidelines will be in there.

Defib firms are working on software revisions to give the correct prompts to the semi-automatic AEDs often used by first-aiders as the shocks are single not stacks of three & cycles of CPR will take two minutes. As the companies had no official knowledge beforehand, this might take a while.

Just like Sat-Nav, follow the voice prompts whatever they say, if says put a bucket on your head, do it, it might save a life.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

I do believe our protocols changed again last week and have not yet seen a copy of the SOP.
I'll see what I can get tomorrow and transcribe it on here.............but it will probably change again by the end of the week!

Or maybe I wont!

At the risk of confusing some of our posters - I will refrain from posting in this forum for the time being - sorry.

[Woolley]

I take it that means there's further variations, then? Obviously compliled by the same people who do Safety Car flag rules...