[Official] Pat Symonds joins Williams as CT

[chunterer]

Interesting development.....

Also means both members if the top design team of last year's car, Gillan and Coughlan have both left!

Pat is one if the best engineers ever to inhabit F1 but what will his appointment mean for Williams?

Can he bring something new or extra?

Suggests a major overhaul of the engineering function is forthcoming....

[kurski]

Pat Symonds will most likely Williams F1 Team with Marussia F1 Team the best engineers, and probably also some of the old familiar from Enstone.

[Knowlesy]

A big addition to Williams. They won't go down without a big fight.

Good to have Pat back properly as well. Despite what happened at Singapore, you felt his reasoning was sincere and that he hugely regretted it. He deserves another chance.

[JeremySmith]

I have a lot of time for Pat Symonds, a great addition for Wiliams..

[Bononi]

That's right, hopefully we will see Williams on the right way again...

[GTRMagic]

But its hard to know where the sponduli will come from to firstly rebuild the technical team, and secondly, put a pukka #1 non-paydriver in one of the seats.. to see how fast it can really go...

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

But its hard to know where the sponduli will come from to firstly rebuild the technical team, and secondly, put a pukka #1 non-paydriver in one of the seats.. to see how fast it can really go...

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

But its hard to know where the sponduli will come from to firstly rebuild the technical team, and secondly, put a pukka #1 non-paydriver in one of the seats.. to see how fast it can really go...

Maldonado is well sponsored and he's certainly not slow. Definitely worth hanging on to. Plus spending money on the car is far more productive than spending money on drivers, which is why Marussia are where they are despite having a decent pedaller like Bianchi on their books.

I certainly hope that Pat Symmonds can work some magic at Williams and that his employment there is not too late to have some decent input into their 2014 car.

Go Williams!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Maldonado is well sponsored and he's certainly not slow. Definitely worth hanging on to. Plus spending money on the car is far more productive than spending money on drivers, which is why Marussia are where they are despite having a decent pedaller like Bianchi on their books.

I certainly hope that Pat Symmonds can work some magic at Williams and that his employment there is not too late to have some decent input into their 2014 car.

Go Williams!

Speaking of Maldonado, Bottas seems to be giving him a very good run for his money! Out qualifies him regularly


Williams: 18.5-8.5 to Valteri Bottas

According to Otto's analysis on his Team Mate comparison thread.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Interesting development.....

Also means both members if the top design team of last year's car, Gillan and Coughlan have both left!

Pat is one if the best engineers ever to inhabit F1 but what will his appointment mean for Williams?

Can he bring something new or extra?

Suggests a major overhaul of the engineering function is forthcoming....

Changing of the order of the house. Currently the old leadership has not performed so a new employee has been appointed to set things in order. The new broom.... 2014-2015 will tell if it changes anything and if the new order is what was required. Mercedes engines on the way so what becomes of Williams will be interesting.

[Dave M]

I understand that there is a general feeling of 'relief' at the change. Do not be surprised if further changes happen.

Obviously a good man - calm, calculated & very knowledgable. One has to have a good feeling about it in the long run. Results are the only judge but it takes time & the correct application of available resources. Witness Lotus F1 (without him).

But 2 years ago the same changes were made at Williams for the same reasons & have broadly failed. No one can guarantee success. Only one team can win & usually one car is fastest each year. It's like shuffling cards, hoping to pick out the Ace. Little is made in all these sorts of cases of the ones who choose these key people. They don't often suffer the criticism they deserve because the press don't like to go out on a limb & tell home truths - for obvious back scratching reasons.

And why do teams continue to take on 'failures'? Just because they have held a certain position, they seem afraid to 'let them go somewhere else'.

The F1 teams are littered with smart young people every bit as good if given the chance. It's synomonous with Premier League football - no matter how good your home grown players, they can't resist buying in 'names'.

[Sodemo]

And the Williams staff merry-go-round continues. Its rather sad to see the team like this, it would be good for them to have some stability.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Dave M

And why do teams continue to take on 'failures'? Just because they have held a certain position, they seem afraid to 'let them go somewhere else'.

The F1 teams are littered with smart young people every bit as good if given the chance. It's synomonous with Premier League football - no matter how good your home grown players, they can't resist buying in 'names'.

because there's only one, maybe two at a push who have actually been successful. the rest have plenty of excuses - either team leadership that didn't quite understand the challenges of f1 and where the resources needed to be, or simply not enough resources. if you didn't take on people who had been at teams that failed to design a brilliant car every year then teams would be lead by the cleaners.

and i don't know if there are actually any smart young people ready to take on such a responsibility yet, frankly. not with the same kind of hands-on engineering experience. until then you do have to have someone there to direct and lead.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

Out qualifies him regularly

Maldonado always seems to look better in the races, and loves circuits like Monaco, where the driver actually makes a difference. But the car is truly awful this season, and it seems more likely that luck and not talent will get the car in a higher position than the 'newbies' are attaining.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by bella

because there's only one, maybe two at a push who have actually been successful. the rest have plenty of excuses - either team leadership that didn't quite understand the challenges of f1 and where the resources needed to be, or simply not enough resources. if you didn't take on people who had been at teams that failed to design a brilliant car every year then teams would be lead by the cleaners.

and i don't know if there are actually any smart young people ready to take on such a responsibility yet, frankly. not with the same kind of hands-on engineering experience. until then you do have to have someone there to direct and lead.

Perhaps I meant to say just 'other', not necessarily 'young'.
There certainly are plenty of others who are just as capable but have been passed over for whatever reason. Those making the judgements of who to promote are certainly not infallible either.
There may be a difference between employing someone with a history of 'lack of success' & someone with a history of 'failure'. It's difficult to judge. How many chances should somebody have? F1 is not always fair or logical. The requirement for 'instant success' often clouds or distorts peoples' judgements.

[littleman]

I can't believe members of this Forum are actually welcoming back a proven cheat and GP "fixer"! "I've always had alot of time for Pat"........why? I don't care how good an engineer he might be, the bloke is seriously flawed, morally & ethically bankrupt.

F1 is about the only place an underhand sneak, who is prepared to actually tell a driver to deliberately crash, would find work.

Who know's what could have happened to Piquet or others during that "arranged" shunt? What if a marshall had been hit by a flying wheel or another driver had run over suspension parts?

Absolute stupidity - to sanction such a reckless act is unforgiveable.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by littleman

Absolute stupidity - to sanction such a reckless act is unforgiveable.

A fraction off topic but many consider the 'stupidity' from Singapore 2008 was in the driver's seat of the crashed car, for listening to the bozos on the pitwall in the first place...

[littleman]

What a cop out!

Don't blame "Good Old Pat", blame a kid desperate to retain a seat in F1.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by littleman

I can't believe members of this Forum are actually welcoming back a proven cheat and GP "fixer"! "I've always had alot of time for Pat"........why? I don't care how good an engineer he might be, the bloke is seriously flawed, morally & ethically bankrupt.

F1 is about the only place an underhand sneak, who is prepared to actually tell a driver to deliberately crash, would find work.

Who know's what could have happened to Piquet or others during that "arranged" shunt? What if a marshall had been hit by a flying wheel or another driver had run over suspension parts?

Absolute stupidity - to sanction such a reckless act is unforgiveable.

A very good point which I delibrately did not bring up for 2 reasons:

1. It seems to be the norm that people bringing this sport into disrepute are eventually let back in. (Witness Symonds predesessor at WF1 & others.

2. I'm not sure how deeply we are allowed to personably criticise on this forum. (Better read the rules...)

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by littleman

F1 is about the only place an underhand sneak, who is prepared to actually tell a driver to deliberately crash, would find work.

What's your view on using your slower driver to block / hold up other cars to give your number one driver better track position? Having Piquet drive into the wall to bring out the saftey car is just this tactic taken to an extreme.

Originally Posted by littleman

Who know's what could have happened to Piquet or others during that "arranged" shunt? What if a marshall had been hit by a flying wheel or another driver had run over suspension parts?

This is why he was rightly banned in my opinion - the tactic itself is valid from a theoretical point of view (sacrifice one cars race for the benefit of the other) but the risk posed to others as a result of it was unacceptable.

Originally Posted by Dave M

1. It seems to be the norm that people bringing this sport into disrepute are eventually let back in. (Witness Symonds predesessor at WF1 & others.

This is an odd one - if someone has been banned for whatever reason then once the ban is up there's no reason they can't come back (although there may be teams that don't want to be associated with a particular individual - and that's fair enough). The odd thing for me is people that have clearly failed in their job at one team usually pop up somewhere else in the paddock.

[littleman]

If the "Rules" demand you have to be a sycophantic worshipper of all things related to F1 then what's the point of a Forum.

This ain't North Korea.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by littleman

If the "Rules" demand you have to be a sycophantic worshipper of all things related to F1 then what's the point of a Forum.

This ain't North Korea.

No sycophancy required here - if you can justify your reasons for an opinion then go for it. Forums don't work so well if everyone agrees all the time

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by littleman

I can't believe members of this Forum are actually welcoming back a proven cheat and GP "fixer"! "I've always had alot of time for Pat"........why? I don't care how good an engineer he might be, the bloke is seriously flawed, morally & ethically bankrupt.

F1 is about the only place an underhand sneak, who is prepared to actually tell a driver to deliberately crash, would find work.

Who know's what could have happened to Piquet or others during that "arranged" shunt? What if a marshall had been hit by a flying wheel or another driver had run over suspension parts?

Absolute stupidity - to sanction such a reckless act is unforgiveable.

It was a stupid, reckless act by all concerned and Pat has publicly said so about his role in it a number of times.

However, he HAS done his time and there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to work in the game again. Granted some may always look at him in a different light but he IS a talented guy who has been there & done that for several decades and may just be what Williams need.

To suggest he shouldn't be allowed back into F1 at all is in my view harsh - murderers are allowed back into society once they've done their time, same with many other serious crimes. Pat's crime was nowhere near that bad, he's done his time & I'd suggest that it's highly unlikely that he'd ever do such a thing again.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A fraction off topic but many consider the 'stupidity' from Singapore 2008 was in the driver's seat of the crashed car, for listening to the bozos on the pitwall in the first place...

That's one version of course - the other version is that the suggestion came from the drivers seat & that the bozos went along with it.

Regardless of who suggested it though, NONE of them should have agreed to it nor gone ahead with it.

[henners88]

Great news to have Pat back in employment within the paddock. I very good engineer who I have missed I have to say. He served his ban and its good to have him back. Singapore 2008 was a dirty episode, and something I think we will never know the truth of. Best move on and forget it IMO.