Pacific Rim Championship

[Oldtony]

With Bernie playing greedy with race fees and demanding night races does Tony George and the AOW management group have an opportunity to muscle in on a large slice of the race fan market in the fastest growing markets in the World?.
Starting late September and running through to January for most of the time the world only has A1GP to watch on TV. The North American Market seems to want to keep the points scoring part of it's series at home, with the final seemingly contracted to Chicago.(for how long)
How about a series for Indy type cars running Montegi, Fuji, Shanghai, Surfers Paradise, Albert Park, Hamilton NZ, Mexico City, with the final in Long Beach mid January. If you could fit a race in somewhere in Korea between Japan and China, and somewhere in S.America between Hamilto and Mexico so much the better.
The Pacific Rim Championship has a nice ring to me.

[Teretonga]

If Bernie takes the Australian GP away TG will have a ripe opening for an early start to his Indycar series anyway.

Surfers originally was in March, when the AGP was at the end of the season. Melbourne moved it to the start when it was shifted from Adelaide. So surfers was shifted to the close of the season, not the opening.

The weather is more stable in February than in October anyway in the southern part of Australia so there would be no reason why the season couldn't begin with a 3 or 4 race swing through Australia and maybe New Zealand to Japan before landing in Long Beach for the start of the American campaign then across the States to Indianapolis by the end of May.
It would make an Indycar 'world series' much more so and with the absence of GP racing in that part of the world add to the importance of the American series. With Dixon, Briscoe and Will Power all running with top teams a race in NZ, a couple in Australia added to Japan may be just what the doctor ordered.

[Oldtony]

The weather certainly isn't more stable on the Gold Coast in February. While an afternoon storm is a possibility in October/November it is a virtual certainty in February. That was more the reason for the shift in dates than the AGP move to early in the year. Anyway the use of the terms "stable weather" and "Melbourne" in the same sentence is taking a bit of a chance.
To fit into the weather pattern to start a single series the pattern would have to be NZ end of Feb, Australia March, Japan April. That would put the start of the US continental season back to right on top of the traditional Indy dates.
The seperate Pacific Rim series would have the distinct advantage of giving Asian countries a feeling of "ownership" and may attract better sponsorship and participation from say Japan, China and Korea.
I'd be happy either way.

[Fish_Flake]

If one could convince Formula Nippon to adopt IndyCar specs (they use the same engines already) and expand outside of Japan, it could become a Pacific Rim Championship in and of itself.

[Oldtony]

Right at the moment maybe it would be easier for IRL/CCWS to adopt Formula Nippon specs.
T.G. et al are the ones looking for a new set of specs after all?
But you are right. Some level of commonality would help the development of a potentialy great series. The road/oval mix is always the tough thing to get right in chassis and aero design.

[climb]

mmmhhh I'm still convinced that Indycar must promote themselves in the States, taking advantage of F1 impopularity.
Then one can imagine further developments, but I'd start with it.

[lnin0]

Originally Posted by climb

mmmhhh I'm still convinced that Indycar must promote themselves in the States, taking advantage of F1 impopularity.
Then one can imagine further developments, but I'd start with it.

Indy Car needs to gather fans from all over the globe and in doing so more and more Americans will pay attention to what is going on. NASCAR is not afriad of another American-only race series and Indy Car is in no shape to go toe to toe with NASCAR.

Yes, keep strong ties to America but Indy Car has to get out and grab those worldwide markets and money before NASCAR does or F1 wakes up. Take the low hanging fruit and build momentum rather than trying to eat the scraps off someone else's table.

[rush1]

Australia and Japan should be on the IRL calender for years to come and China and South Korea would be possible in the future.

I agree the IRL must look beyond North America. I hope Kevin Kalkhoven could help the series gain a foothold in these markets

[Dutton]

I'd love to see this championship: it needn't be affiliated with US openwheel (although it could be, I guess). I would love to see this, but then that is because it would be more motorsport (and during the typical off-season, which makes it all the more appealing!).

I'd rather like to see Bathurst on the schedule.

However, if we are thinking in terms of the management of the newly "unified" Indycar in the US, I am not sure it would be an idea for them to try something like this right now. They had best focus on sorting out the US scenario before worrying about something else: however, I do think non-NAm rounds should be more than token gesture in the "IRL" schedule.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I'd love to see this championship: it needn't be affiliated with US openwheel (although it could be, I guess). I would love to see this, but then that is because it would be more motorsport (and during the typical off-season, which makes it all the more appealing!).

I'd rather like to see Bathurst on the schedule.

However, if we are thinking in terms of the management of the newly "unified" Indycar in the US, I am not sure it would be an idea for them to try something like this right now. They had best focus on sorting out the US scenario before worrying about something else: however, I do think non-NAm rounds should be more than token gesture in the "IRL" schedule.

As cool as it would be, I don't think that open wheelers at Bathurst would work, the constant and in some places violent elevation changes would rip the bottoms off the cars.

I would fully support a series like this, it would provide a great alternative to the F1, and could hopefull challenge F1 for the world domination.

Mick

[JohnSSC]

Is Kevin Kalkohven posting here?

The whole "Pacific Rim" focus was tried once before and failed because of the issues with Ansan and the track in China.

It is imperative to first build the fan base where IndyCar lives, and that is North America. Running all over the globe and having a Euro Swing here and a Pacific Rim Swing there and a Mexico/S American Swing tossed in is going to leave the core fans even more bewildered.

The Pacific Rim Strategy did not work for CC. Now is not the time to repeat that mistake. Maybe at some point in the future - but not now.

[climb]

Originally Posted by lnin0

Indy Car needs to gather fans from all over the globe and in doing so more and more Americans will pay attention to what is going on. NASCAR is not afriad of another American-only race series and Indy Car is in no shape to go toe to toe with NASCAR.

Should your assumption be true, F1 would be very popular in the States, exactly the opposite of what's happening in reality.
The US fans love to sports that put them in the center of the world (not only US disciplines like baseball and football, but also european ones like basketball), that's why they do not like soccer or F1, where they are nothing more than "one of the countries".
That's why OWR have to base themselves strongly in America, evenctually keeping some incidental events elsewhere where they succeed (like Surfers Paradise)

Having many fans in a relatively limited area, makes this business more successful that having very few everywhere. At least you have to start from a strong root before developing branches

[lnin0]

I was not the one saying there should be a pacific rim series or IRL should abondon the states. In fact I said they need to keep their roots in the US but why let Canada, Mexico City, Australia and Japan not in on the party? They have money - money the other race series growing like a weed across the USA hasn't tapped into yet. Money and sponsers that a rebudding series like Indy Car can use to grow.

Why wouldn't you want that?

One thing the rest of the world hates is America's greater than thow attitude and an all American series is exactly the thing they won't touch. However, a globally open series, even if it is still strongly rooted in America, is something they will eat - they have before; it was called CART.

Plus, while America does love to love itself it also loves to show off for the world. If F1 was owned and operated from and by a majority of American owners and teams you can bet we would be watching.

[Amar7605]

It's true, Americans are very ego-centric!

But the thing is that there really is no point in trying to expand all over the world now. Right now American open-wheel needs to heal its roots here in the US. We need to establish and fortify our base here first.

The only races outside the US should be in Mexico, Canada (because of North America), Australia, and Japan. But that's it. No China, no Korea, no New Zealand, no England, no Mars. Take a few years, solidify what you have right now, and worry about global expansion later.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by lnin0

I was not the one saying there should be a pacific rim series or IRL should abondon the states. In fact I said they need to keep their roots in the US but why let Canada, Mexico City, Australia and Japan not in on the party? They have money - money the other race series growing like a weed across the USA hasn't tapped into yet. Money and sponsers that a rebudding series like Indy Car can use to grow.

Why wouldn't you want that?

One thing the rest of the world hates is America's greater than thow attitude and an all American series is exactly the thing they won't touch. However, a globally open series, even if it is still strongly rooted in America, is something they will eat - they have before; it was called CART.

Plus, while America does love to love itself it also loves to show off for the world. If F1 was owned and operated from and by a majority of American owners and teams you can bet we would be watching.

I am not saying I would not want expansion, but the recent history is that the Pacific Rim did not want CC, which does not bode well for IndyCar at the moment.

The series has to establish firm roots in its home environment first before it can "expand" into an overseas series.

[johntt]

I think Indycar should stay mainly in America, going to Canada, Mexico, Australia and Japan as it has/will do.

However, the idea of a Pacifc Rim open wheel championship sanctioned by the Indy Racing League is a good one, It would be a good place for all those DP01s to go, and it would help bring more talent (and sponsorship) in from Asia.

[Teretonga]

There is a world of difference between a full Pacific rim series and adding another race to the Australian leg and splittting the costs.
Adding a second race in Australia would not be difficult, NZ is a few hours away by plane and the other country is japan where there is already a race.

As for the rest of Asia it seems to be enamoured with F1 right now but how long will that last.

As for the rest of the Asian/Pacific market well....
China has trade with the US that could be leveraged to include a round in the future but Korea does not have a suitable venue, either temporary or permanent.
Malaysia does have a couple of good circuits but not Thailand nor the Philippines or Taiwan so it isn't really a major issue at this time.

However an extra event in Australia (or NZ) would be economically viable for the promoters and the expensdes paid by the organisers so it wouldn't be a burden on the series.

Start with what you have and expand as the opportunities grow.

[Oldtony]

JohnSSC. Other than the China where has Pacific Rim been a failure for AOW cars?
A series comprising Montegi, Surfers, Mexico, and Long Beach would only require some rescheduling of existing races. I would suggest that Hamilton could be included at a fairly insignificant extra cost and you would have a five race series up ready to go for the next northern winter. That could put great motor racing pictures in the lounge rooms of America in a period when there was limited other choice, giving a promotional boost to AOW when all the other series were on holiday.
Melbourne is going to be looking for a race post 2010, There are other circuits in Japan, and in spite of the earlier problems China ia a potential market. Once the series was shaken down, using the 5 initial circuits as a starter, it could grow to bring in those places as the opportunity arises.
The points in favour are:
1: Allows the N American series to stand alone.
2: Provides interesting TV pictures of AOW cars when there is little else on.
3: Opens a whole new area of potential sponsorship from outside the US.
4: Gives fans in Pacific countries a sense of participation in AOW racing.
If it's niche marketing mate, it's a very big niche!

[mountainstar]

I would say with the exception of a few choice races, expanding overseas should be way down the list of priorities.

[Dutton]

How many rounds do we think Canada should have? I'd like to see three, which I don't think would be terribly unreasonable.

Mosport, St. Jovite, Edmonton.

More would be grand, but I think three should be seen as a fair minimum.

As to something more on topic, I think the idea of the Pacific thing as a series in its own right also has in its favour that it can sell it to the local markets quite differently to how it need be at "home". There are plenty of people in the local areas who could can be sold to, plus, as has already been said, at "home" it would not really have much to rival it.

I'd certainly watch it, and I think there are many who would just because it is one of the few things available.

[Oldtony]

Mountainstar.
As I understand it contracts already exist for Montegi and Surfers. Not so sure about Mexico and Long Beach. The only "expansion" involved at the start would be NZ, and that would help cover the Surfers costs.
What I am suggesting is something to fill that "winter of discontent" on TV and get Open wheelers back on the motorsport viewers want list.
It also solves the problem of the Chicago insistance of being the final points race in the N.American Series while providing a peg for the existing promoters of the listed races to hang thier hat on.
I realise a few in the US think California and New York are the edge of the world but there are many who don't and our spring summer offers an opportunity that is not available to other US series.

[Amar7605]

Keep in mind that Champ Car tried to expand internationally, partly because there was a keen lack of interest in North America (well, the US mostly). Remember when just about half of the schedule was outside the US?

Personally when I saw that, I knew that there were some serious problems with the series.

[Teretonga]

How many races?
USA 10-13(Indy, Milwaukee, Kansas, Texas, Watkins Glen, Michigan, Cleveland, Long Beach, Nashville, Road America, Rockingham, St Petes, Fontana?)
Canada 3 Toronto, Edmonton, Ste Jovite/Mosport,
Overseas 4 Surfers, Motegi + 2 (NZ?Melbourne?China?)
Total (18-20)
Possible substitutes: Laguna Seca/Sears Point, Homestead, Portland, Mid Ohio,
Thats enough for a season.... And 4 overseas (max) in one or two trips isn't a huge burden.


If you wanted to create a pacific rim series within the series pick the 4 overseas races plus Long Beach, Fontana,..... A six round 'rim' sub series....

[climb]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I would say with the exception of a few choice races, expanding overseas should be way down the list of priorities.

For strange that it may appear, I entirely agree with you!


BTW: does a pacific rim championship exist in other fields of motorsport?
Does it have a meaningful identity for sports events? I only know about Panpacific Games, but that's a completely different domain.

[duke_toaster]

[RADICAL_IDEA]

Current IRL becomes "IRL : North America Division". When the new set of technical regulations comes in - and not before, probably Formula Nippon expands and changes to become "IRL : Pacific Division".

Pac and NA are two totally separate championships for the most part. However, there would be two joint races - the Indy 500 (Unless we want to run an old style season with the 500 as the final) and a road course in Asia - I'd say Suzuka given the fact it is just leet. Joint races are worth double points, and IRL-NA and IRL-Pac cars are actually racing each other for points, but the points only count to one series.

Both series, including the 500 and Suzuka are fourteen races long.

Now, here is the "don't shoot me, please" part - a "IndyCar World Series" at the end of the season. It would work a bit like NASCAR's chase, except it wouldn't be contrived as it would actually be a finals (if you consider the IRL-NA and IRL-Pac as semi-finals).

This would alternate every year between North America and Pacific. It would alternate between two ovals and one road course (preferably in NA as the only Pacific oval I can think of is Motegi) and two ovals/one road. Points wouldn't be carried over. The points from the three end of season races, plus the 500 and Suzuka count towards this. The tiebreaker would be best position in the 500. The winner of these playoffs would be the IndyCar World Champion.

The only problem I can see is lack of ovals in the Pacific area, and the market may be saturated with GP2 Asia, A1, FRV6A and AF3. With this format you could even add a European league, if you were silly enough.

[/RADICAL IDEA]