SPA Judd V10 Hillclimb Car

[james_williams]

I was watching the video of the British Hillclimb Championship 1992 last night and saw on it Jackie Oliver (I think) driving the ex John Gray SPA Judd V10 hillclimb car at Craigantlet. I think the car was based on a PIlbeam MP58.

It got me thinking. What ever happened to that car? And what ever happened to John Gray? He just disappeared, along with the car?!

Anyone know anything?

[james_williams]

Opps, Double Post. Can a mod delete?

[james_williams]

Thanks. Discussion continued.....

[Fireblade]

The SPA-Pilbeam hybrid was the Rob Turnbull car if I correctly recall.
Without having the videos to hand (as I have leant them out) I seem to remember that one of the 92 or 93 Championship videos feature John Beatties Judd engined SPA also driven by Rob Turnbull.
John got BTD at the Shelsley July 1995 meeting in that car.

SPA also built a sportsracer style car which was hillclimbed by Christian Mineef and ably spannered by Peter Harper. Now owned by Matthew Harrison.
Absolute beast of a car. Has an ex F1 engine that used to reside in Ivan Capelli's Leyton House car designed by Adrian Newey no less.

[james_williams]

There was a couple of SPA/Pilbeam cars. I don't remember Rob Turnbull having one but I think Rob Welch had one. I could be mistaken of course. John Beattie did have one but I don't know if this was the same car as the Gray car. The Gray car had a V10 JUDD, the only one (until GWJ gets his car going) in hillclimbing and was sprinted for a while. I seem to recall it had a strange airbox on it for a while (70's style) but in the video it had a more normal looking engine cover/airbox and was painted a purple/blue colour!

I remember that Shelsley 1995 meeting. We were parked next to John in our March 792/Hart!

[Bruce Shingle]

The SPA that Rob Turnbull had went to Bill Bristow who took the BV out for his Ralt. It started life as an MP50 fitted with a Hart. It is now in the West Country somewhere I think with a Vauxhall or a bike engine. The John Gray V10, Judd GV, is the car now sprinted by John Payne fitted with an EV. John Gray did not bend the car but thought that the standard MP58 tub was not up to the job so had SPA build a replica. The MP58 tub went to Graham Hickman.

[Bruce Shingle]

Should have read the thread more carefully. The Rob Welch car was the Rob Turnbull car. It went from Welch to Bristow.
John Beattie's SPA was a car built for an Asian Championship, I think still born. When John ran it first it had a 4 cylinder engine but I cannot remember what. He shared it with Barry Goode, Ian Fidoe's business partner. Barry had run the Andy Priaulx MP57 that then went to Malc Orme, Mark Harrison and Stuart Rob. Barry if you recall took the top paddock gate post down at Shelsley with the SPA.

[ss_collins]

does anyone remember the Trakstar ZK81 (think thats what it was called) Basically a Kart but mega for hillclimbing. What became of that?

[Bruce Shingle]

Was that the Phil Jefferies car? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[Fireblade]

Yes it was Bruce. Rotax 250 engine was it not.
Probably broken up by now. Must ask him next time I see him. Was most impressive if not scarey to watch.

[Woolley]

The trackstar got banned in severaal stages. A minimum wheel base rule merely caused two trailing wheels to be added. I think the MSA eventually said 'You can't run THAT!'

Barry did indeed hit the gate post at the finish paddock at Shelsley, on the same day that Graham Hickman had his shunt. I think it was that car that assualted Top Ess when the throttle stuck open, but I'm not sure if Barry was driving it on that occasion though. It was a memorable shunt though, as it took place immediately below the commentator's hut and resulted in the use of a rude word beginning with 'S' to be used on the public address!

[james_williams]

Thanks for all your replys guys. I think John Payne is trying to sell his car, although I didn't realise that it was the ex Gray car. Thanks again for all of you insights..

The 'S' word over the tannoy at Shelsley? Surely not!?

[dvmnt]

James,

it is indeed for sale and sounds like a good buy. Although it isn't quite the Gray car in that Gray was having a second SPA tub built for it after he stuffed it at Doune, when he abruptly disappeared. The V10 was leased so went back to Judd and SPA kept the tub for about 18 months unfinished until John Payne bought it and got Dave Whitehead to finish the job off.

Bruce, the Welch/Turnbull MP50 now has a Rover/TVR V8 and belongs to John Forsyth.

see ya

DV

[James Murray]

What ever happened to the Jordan that Graham Hickman con verted. I see there was refernce to him having an accident at SW. Was this in the Jordan?

[dvmnt]

His Shelsley accident was in the Jordan. The right rear suspension broke and slung the tail wide which sent the nose tight, he clipped the bank on the left and was launched upside down into the ravine. Poor bloke still has the scars. Don't know where the car went after that. Good old Shelsley, take no prisoners!

[Woolley]

I was at that shunt, and it was not a pleasat experience. What was pleasant, though, was Graham putting on a 'thank you' BBQ for the marshals at Shelsley this year on the tenth anniversary, which was the first time I'd met him since.

I believe the car was on display in a bar in Malaysia or somewhere when last heard of.

[abigail]

Hello everybody. Many of you will know me. I am the faithful Bassett Hound of a very well known hillclimb racer. I go to nearly every major event, but after walking the hill I am normally locked away in the motorhome until after the event. Those naughty marshals think he looks like Bertie Wooster. My master was standing next to the cameraman. He says if you talk to that nice Mr Hay or Mr Fisher they can sell you a tape of the 1994 hillclimb season with the crash on with a second view from another cameraman. My master says it was very nasty but that Mr Hickman should have been more careful. My master says Shelsley bites back very badly just like i do if you don't feed me treats. My master also says if Mr Hickman ever wants to make a comeback he should have some lessons at the Gurston Down Hillclimb school, but he should get a decent car like the one Rob Turnbull is getting soon. Love Abigail

[Woolley]

Yep, got the video ('cause I'm on it running up the hill with my fire bottle). I suspect 'more careful' is not a choice you're able to make when a link in your suspension fails in the middle of a fast corner with no run off. Fortunately the banking has been improved since then, and is better at containing a car within the track, and more free of obstructions if it receives a more determined assault. In the end though, there's only so much you can do to make a hill climb safe, and luck plays quite a part as young master Fleetwood proved with his escape from an incident that had many similarities to Graham's (high speed roll over, landing on a bank covered in undergrowth and finishing in much the same sort of position). He was also aided by the superior safety of the more modern cars, and Steve Owen should be congratulated on such a well-built chassis which appears to have done exactly what it is supposed to do.

[b1ackcr0w]

Lest we forget that many drivers have been more seriously injured by events following the car coming to rest than the accident itself. Such as a fire starting or a poorly planned or executed recovery. Neither of which happened on Sunday.

It's too easy to get into false modesty about these things! Well done the GITS

[Bruce Shingle]

Originally posted by abigail
Hello everybody. Many of you will know me. I am the faithful Bassett Hound of a very well known hillclimb racer. I go to nearly every major event, but after walking the hill I am normally locked away in the motorhome until after the event. Those naughty marshals think he looks like Bertie Wooster. My master was standing next to the cameraman. He says if you talk to that nice Mr Hay or Mr Fisher they can sell you a tape of the 1994 hillclimb season with the crash on with a second view from another cameraman. My master says it was very nasty but that Mr Hickman should have been more careful. My master says Shelsley bites back very badly just like i do if you don't feed me treats. My master also says if Mr Hickman ever wants to make a comeback he should have some lessons at the Gurston Down Hillclimb school, but he should get a decent car like the one Rob Turnbull is getting soon. Love Abigail

I suggest that you look at the tape again and this time put your glasses on. The offside rear wheel is clearly trying to steer away from the car. Woolley knows what he is talking about.

[abigail]

Wise Bruce, we say that both you and Woolley are of course correct about the right hand side, but notice that as the car slews left towards the bank and the major impact that the left hand side rear is also adrift. Why?

Rewind the tape a little and you will notice that the car clipped the bank on the left a few yards earlier and this was fundamental to the accident, and was the root cause.

Daylight is visible under the left hand front wheel. You will see a puff of dirt. That impact was not visible from the marshals position. The car was then out of Graham's control as the rear broke to the right. The right hand side broke as that wheel struck the bank.

This is about ten feet before the camera and is outside the periphery of the lens, but was under my feet! (Sorry I have now completely dropped out of Abigail mode)

Whilst I have no wish to contradict a fellow enthusiast my explanation is correct.

I intend no criticism of Grahams driving but a slightly more circumspect approach to the Crossing and this would not have occurred. Observe the driving of the fastest at this point and middle of track is where they will be.

Sir Stirling Moss himself has commented that the Crossing is the most formidable corner in the whole world of motor sport there being a totally blind approach between two almost vertical banks and the apex being invisible until a cars length away.

I trust that when you next play the tape you will notice the key events I have pointed out. This accident can be used as a good example of root cause analysis and we have used it in this way before, hence the familiarity. Being there helped!

I will now return to mischeivous Abigail mode!

[Bruce Shingle]

Your analysis is worthy but possibly flawed. Indeed Graham did all that you said but the inherent cause of the accident was a failure in the rh rear suspension. Jordan confirmed afterwards that this car had suffered similar failures in it's GP career.

[abigail]

Thank you for those wise words and I accept what you say so perhaps we let that subject rest until the next time it is raised!

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by abigail
Thank you for those wise words and I accept what you say so perhaps we let that subject rest until the next time it is raised!

This is about ten feet before the camera and is outside the periphery of the lens, but was under my feet! (Sorry I have now completely dropped out of Abigail mode)

must have been real low to have been under the feet of a bassett hound!!! (which is not allowed trackside whilst the track is live!!!).

you gonna admit to who you really are or maintain this charade??? You're obviously a hillclimb fan but this forum has no place for wind-up merchants!!

[Fireblade]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by crazystu
must have been real low to have been under the feet of a bassett hound!!! lololol Very good, nice one Stu.

You're obviously a hillclimb fan but this forum has no place for wind-up merchants!!

So sayeth the King of Wind Up