Criticism of Marshals' Performance (split from Raikkonen criticle of Marshals)

[alec]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

Mr Tim Harvey referred to them as "amateur weekend warriors".

Erm, but we are though, aren't we? Or do you lot get paid and not do it at the weekend?

[Robin_D]

The thing is though most of us have done more race meetings than the drivers (well apart from some of the older clubbies, who treat us with respect).

So we are more proffesional than them?

[luke]

I have to say some marshals are idiots, I'm on about karting ones. When I retired once because my engine cut out, I got told I could take off my helmet, and cross the track back to the pits. I got shouted at and spoke to after for this. One didn't even know what race it was. Would be nice if karting marshals were more qualified.

[chezza]

Thats very nice of you to say that luke, I'm sure the kart marshals on here loved reading that. Have you every heard the phrase if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all?

I have to say the marshals did a fairly good job when Kimi's car caught fire during the race and he didn't make their job easy by driving off half way through them trying to put him out!

[Ian Sowman]

Maybe, but they wouldn't be reported, would they?

I'm a bit concerned about a couple of people on the thread that marshals are above criticism. That's probably not a very healthy attitude to have. The majority of the time, the marshals/officials do their job very well, but when they get it wrong (and I am not talking about specific cases) they should be as much open to criticism as the drivers.

[chezza]

I hope that isn't a dig at my comments Ian.

Marshals aren't above criticism but there is ways to word things and ways not to word them. In this day and age you don't want to be driving away marshals.

[Nighthawk]

Now i would be the first to say we are not above criticism, Yes i.ve got things wrong on more than one occastion.
But like Chezza says- In this day and age you don't want to be driving away marshals.
And driver comments and attitudes dont help the situation.

[Ian Sowman]

No, not a dig at your comments Chezza - I agree that what they were responding to was not very well put or thought out!

As a corollary to what you say Nighthawk - we don't want to be driving away drivers, either, so everyone has to be careful that comments by drivers supposedly 'against' marshals have been taken in context and with due regard for the circumstances in which they were made.

[beefy]

As far as I am concerned, it is not the message I have an issue with, it's the way that the message has been passed on.
I know full well that I have made mistakes as a marshal. If (and when) I do make a mistake, I would like to know about it. If the driver wants to point it out to me personally, through the observer or indeed race control, that's fine by me. Where I have an issue is the fact that this is being put onto a news service, as the marshals involved have no recourse to respond.
Who is in the right or in the wrong in this instance is not for me to say, as I have not seen any footage of the incident in question.

[luke]

Originally Posted by chezza

Thats very nice of you to say that luke, I'm sure the kart marshals on here loved reading that. Have you every heard the phrase if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all?

I have to say the marshals did a fairly good job when Kimi's car caught fire during the race and he didn't make their job easy by driving off half way through them trying to put him out!

I'm sorry if I offended anyone chezza but when some don't know what they are doing and putting lives at danger ie telling me to do something which is dangerous which I then got told off for doing by the clerk of the course when I followed the marshals instructions, which were to take off my helmet and cross the track whilst the race was still running, I'm hardly going to invite them round for a cup of tea...

[the.cosmic.pope]

Ian makes a very good point - If a driver says a good thing about a marshall it isnt reported, because it isnt interesting. If they say a bad thing it is because it will cause an argument and create a story.

So a guy can say 90 good things about marshalls, then 1 bad thing (and it MAY be justified) and we'll only hear about the 1 bad thing and suddenly hes getting flamed!

[EvilPumpkin]

Ok I think we have two separate issues here so I'm going to split the thread as I think they are both interesting discussions.

[EvilPumpkin]

Of course marshals are not above criticism. However, as has been pointed out in other threads, there are ways to make a complaint.

If you have an issue with how an incident has been handled, then it is up to you to inform the relevant persons on the day of the event. That may be the post Observer, the Chief Marshal or if you're not sure who to talk to, talk to your class representative and get them to raise it. If you can't do it on the day, address the issue in writing as soon as possible to the marshals club involved, providing as much detail as you can.

We cannot rectify issues if we're not aware of them.

Posting to a forum and just slagging off an entire section of the marshalling community based on the alleged actions of one, possibly two, marshals is not going to achieve anything except to get a lot of people annoyed.

Incidentally, I'd be interested in the definition of "Kart Marshal". I do cars, bikes and karts. Does that mean I'm only a partial idiot?

[Robin_D]

Surely if you thought it was dangerous to cross the track, then don't do it?

The attitude of some drivers is crap, but some are normally in a bad mood when they visit us anyway as it has cost them money/points.

[jcbsrule]

I think Kimi was referring to the fire in qualifying.
In my case I would rather have a driver say it to my face than be a chicken and run to the press or c of c

[CombeMarshal]

Originally Posted by alec

Erm, but we are though, aren't we? Or do you lot get paid and not do it at the weekend?

Who the hell is Tim Harvey???

[Sheila M]

Originally Posted by alec

Erm, but we are though, aren't we? Or do you lot get paid and not do it at the weekend?

Yes we are and no we don't! (meaning yes we are amateurs and no we don't get paid!)

The problem with Tim Harvey though, was that the comment amateur weekend warriors was actually said in a very derogatory tone. It upset an awful lot of marshals and resulted in Tim having to visit sign on the next day to apologise personally

Credit where credit is due though, he now praises the actions of marshals whenever he is commentating.

[wensleydale]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

Who the hell is Tim Harvey???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Harvey

[stevebrown]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

Credit where credit is due though, he now praises the actions of marshals whenever he is commentating.

Really? Myself and another marshal got berated by Mr Harvey a couple of years ago for not attending an incident with a brush, live on Motors TV!! He even made a sarcastic comment to it in the race report on the website. I actually posted an explanation to their Forum and although I got support from other posters, Mr Harvey never had the decency to reply, even though I was told he does read the posts.

Steve B

[jim69]

Originally Posted by luke

I have to say some marshals are idiots, I'm on about karting ones. When I retired once because my engine cut out, I got told I could take off my helmet, and cross the track back to the pits. I got shouted at and spoke to after for this. One didn't even know what race it was. Would be nice if karting marshals were more qualified.

I take great exception at this very generalised comment.
I marshal at Three Sisters, and when some of the bigger meetings visit, super one and stars of tommorrow, we are always praised for the quality of the marshals.
You are using an example of one marshal at one event, a bit extreme then to say all kart marshals are idiots.
From what you say you were told that you "could" cross the track, not that you "had" to cross. If the marshal had told you to lie down in the track, would you?

I accept that there will always be mistakes, nobody is perfect, however a sweeping comment like this does not help attract new people or give convidence to the newcommers.

[Piglet]

To me this goes both ways and partially cuts across the poll about whether tenths should be public or private.

There are often threads in these forums that criticise drivers, officials, organisers etc. - often relating to individuals If we expect to be able to criticise others then we have to expect that others will criticise us.

Personally it doesn't really bother me - although if I'm at home I have been known to email Motors or Eurosport to remind them of the safety car rules when they are slagging off the pit exit marshal for holding cars at what they thought was the "wrong" time!

It is always easier to judge from the comfort of your sofa than by the side of a track and there are always differing opinions about how things should be done.

[F.O.F.]

Originally Posted by Ian Sowman

I'm a bit concerned about a couple of people on the thread that marshals are above criticism......they should be as much open to criticism as the drivers.

I often sense that some people think this way.If i screwed up on something at an incident the driver is entitled to criticise me and its better if they do because i wont do it again.
Some people are thick,some marshalls are thick.having marshalled cars,bikes and karts i know that idiots dont discriminate types of racing.There'll allways be a few around regardless of what your doing or where,marshalling or racing.

I try to steer clear of some marshals because they're idiots
and a danger to themselves and others.I also try to steer clear of some drivers and some people on the street for the same reason.Its the same every where,unfortunately some idiots are in the position where peoples lives depend on them.This is something which is starting to really bug me about marshalling because there are people who have no idea of there responsibilities and do not seem to be aware of the fact they are in a very dangerous environment.

Rant over.This is in no way directed at any one person,10ths member or not