How to solve the Indycar/Champ Car situation, letter published on Kirby's website

[johntt]

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie..._is_no110.html

Shows how it should be; replace biodiesel with bioethanol (closer to the methanol that Indycar used) and it would be sorted.

Plus don't go to Brands, FRenault cars can't overtake on the Indy circuit. I was at both the Brands and Rockingham events and Rockingham was way better.

[TIMELORD]

That article is spot on! It was the variety of courses that made the old Indycar World Series such a thorough test of driver skill. A lot of great ideas.. I hope someone sits up and takes notice in the US.

It would be great to see a revitalised Indycar Series back at Rockingham. It's such a waste of an oval without them.

[Fogelhund]

Interesting viewpoint, though many of the details are simply unrealistic at this point. We all wish for a single series (fans, teams, drivers, organizers, owners, sponsors....), but few can agree on what the details would be (and most importantly, the owners of both series haven't been able to agree yet).

[Craig]

Imagine if the bull**** hadn't happened. Imagine. Think where the series would be these days. For gods sake, can't someone make the idiots in charge of these two series realise what they're doing?

[luke]

The thing is yet again KK is being very quiet over the off season. so can any gains be made? All of Champ Car's fans, sponsors, and employees need to be reassured at this rate it doesn't look like there will be a series. The way things look that is. Come on KK, say something, do something, for the sake of CC!

[Denosaur]

I recently saw a program which featured Tony George in it. And from that, plus reading the article, if he stop being such an $%#& retentive stuck up $%@% then things would be different. And that's my opinion based on comments made by him in connection to the Indy circuit.

As for KK and crew, well at least there trying, but I wish they think before they do anything.....

[mountainstar]

Ever since the irl was officially announced in 1994, people to this day continue to put out great ideas, fantasy schedules, et. al, but it is tony george who has held everything back with his unconditional surrender terms. Remember the amigos, especially Mr. Kalkoven have negotiated several times with tg to no avail. Tg I believe from his actions will allow open wheel racing to burn to the ground & doesn't give a damn, as long as he has total control.

Until the day comes when he goes back to running the speedway and stops playing dr. mengele with open wheel racing, is the day when all these great ideas can blossom into something great.

The ultimate irony is, assuming champcar disappears, when tg has total control, he also has total responsibility and I seriously doubt he will do anything to advance the sport. There will be no one else to blame when it all grinds to a halt.

I am still optimistic that open wheel can rise again. Not everyone wants Nascar. I believe a series that embraces all the innovation and diversity that made it great years ago can be popular again.

[Dutton]

As far as I am concerned, NASCAR is primed to delve into the OW world: it is just biding its time.

This provides all the more reason to pray something, somewhere, somehow, keeps something going out of the CC/IRL scenario.

I don't have anything against NASCAR, per say: I just do not appreciate total hegemony in any capacity.

[f1manoz]

Interesting article, and the overall point is an excellent one, but any type of merger, I believe, simply won't happen.

But, to be fair, the article was balanced and argued the case well.

[Mystery]

Great article. My wish is that a "merger" doesn't have to involve one series folding but with every bad news story about CC I fear that will be the case.

[champcarman]

So why don't we all petition the IRL and Champ Car websites so they really know what we, the fans, really want.

[Mystery]

Because unless the powers that be are blind or stupid then they already know. The problem seems to be now that everyone concerned feels they need to survive on their own terms without being seen to capitulate.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Dutton

As far as I am concerned, NASCAR is primed to delve into the OW world: it is just biding its time.

This provides all the more reason to pray something, somewhere, somehow, keeps something going out of the CC/IRL scenario.

I don't have anything against NASCAR, per say: I just do not appreciate total hegemony in any capacity.

Hmmm, you could just about imagine a kind of low-cost 'Formula 5000' stockblock based series with Grand-Am DP engines, couldn't you?

There's even some competitive American engines in there...

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Mystery

Because unless the powers that be are blind or stupid then they already know. The problem seems to be now that everyone concerned feels they need to survive on their own terms without being seen to capitulate.

Agreed!

A page right out of the "Planning for Failure Manual" if there ever was one...

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I believe a series that embraces all the innovation and diversity that made it great years ago can be popular again.

Yeah, it's called the American Le Mans Series.

Chris

[motofan]

dont no if you guys have already heard this but didnt the chief of indy car approach all of the champ car teams and offer them money for a car and an engine and what not for one full racing year aswell as offering to use 4 tracks in the IRL if the champ car teams chose to merge with IRL

[motofan]

if you havnt heard it i have it on good authority tha tthis happened

[climb]

Good points in gordon's feature, but some weaknesses as well:
1- the wished merger he fancies is just IRL capitulating and declaring that what comes from CC is the best under every point of view (chassis, int'l attitude etc)
2- he sees the new series as the sum of the best points he sees on both sides (actually on one sole side), whereas the new subject should, IMHO, sort something new: new chassis, new engine/s, new tracks etc
3- As any passionate fan, he listens to his heart more than to his brains: he nostalgically wishes a return to the multi engine/chassis formula, basically because "in their golden age Cart were like this" but you cannot build the future trying to get the past forward. Those were years when the team could enjoy budget absolutely unimaginable todays: that's why monomake series have become the standard.

[Mystery]

But have monomake series become the standard??

One makes
GP2 (Asia), CCWS, IRL, A1, WSR

Multi-makes
F1, (A)LMS, Grand Am, F3, Touring Cars, GTs, F Nippon, Nascar (sort of)

[icemachine]

How hard would it be to update the Dallara to make it competitive with the DP-01 on non-ovals, and would an oval aero package for DP really be that difficult?

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Mystery

But have monomake series become the standard??

One makes
GP2 (Asia), CCWS, IRL, A1, WSR

Multi-makes
F1, (A)LMS, Grand Am, F3, Touring Cars, GTs, F Nippon, Nascar (sort of)

F3 is de-facto one-make. If you don't have a Dallara-Merc you might as well stay home.

FNippon is control-chassis, free engine, isn't it?

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Pete Fenelon

F3 is de-facto one-make. If you don't have a Dallara-Merc you might as well stay home.

FNippon is control-chassis, free engine, isn't it?

Theres still quite a few different chassis makers in FFord, and VW are supplying engines in F3 this year so that should help diversify things a bit.

Lola did try and enter F3 and break the Dallara monopoly a few years ago a didn't get very far.

[ss_collins]

One makes
GP2 (Asia), CCWS, IRL, A1, WSR

Multi-makes
F1, (A)LMS, Grand Am, F3, Touring Cars, GTs, F Nippon, Nascar (sort of)

Bah why am I always the one to explian series

F3 is not a spec series - in the last cycle there were a pile of chassis - and the Dome was more than a match for the F305/6/7. This cycle I'd be amazed if the Mygale didn't win races so no its 100% not a spec series - engine wise you have VW, Nissan, Honda, Toyota, FIAT, and Merc, the works Toyota's and Hondas are bloody good.

Nippon - this is a spec series with two engine choices - Honda or Toyota, thats it - Nissan will be a third engine choice when the new car appears

FFord is resurgent - mega class loads of chassis.

Spec series are horrid things.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Spec series are horrid things.

Yes I'd have to agree. It just kills the interest seeing the same exact cars on the grid whatever the series. In regards to Champcar, I could understand the reasoning at the time for going with one car as the Lola was getting old and the cost savings, new Panoz for under $300k with a Lola 650K, were significant. But I think it is limiting in too many ways.

[Purist]

For the cars, I really liked the smooth shapes we saw in the '80s. Indy/champ cars should stick with something akin to the Cosworth DFX, 2.65-litre V8s. The current IRL engines don't rev heigh enough, so they sound like half a dozen others types of formula cars, not to mention the Judd powered Le Mans Prototypes and all the LMP2s. And I'm REALLY not comfortable with the aero stability, or lack thereof, of the IRL cars. Also, the oval racing has kind of taken on a pattern. You just don't see decisive moves on the faster ovals in IRL races, and on slower ovals like Iowa, the only way around is the inside line; there is no fighting for the position. So for a first stage, I'd draw up a clean-sheet chassis/bodywork that would accomodate the Cosworth.

The concept for the schedule that was laid out was good. For my part, the ovals would be Indy, Michigan, California, Milwaukee, Phoenix, Pocono, and Motegi. For temprary circuit, my picks would be St. Petersburg, Long Beach, Edmonton, Toronto, Cleveland, Detroit (1998-2001 circuit), and Surfers Paradise. Finally, the road courses: Mont Tremblant (PLEASE, no chicane), Portland, Laguna Seca, Road America, Watkins Glen (PLEASE, no Innerloop), Road Atlanta, and Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez.

If you unleash the new generation of cars, it rules out a number of ovals, including one in Italy that (while it's totally unrealistic) would be just wild to see open-wheelers on again. If you want a European tour, stick it in with Motegi and Surfers Paradise in September and October. Do either Brands Hatch (GP Circuit) and Mugello, or do Rockingham and Lausitzring.

I think I would allow push-to-pass in its final form from the 2007 season at some of the races. I think it would be worthwhile at the road and street circuits with more substantial straights: Long Beach, Toronto, Cleveland, Surfers Paradise, St. Jovite, Road America, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta, and Mexico City (Mugello too, if you did the European road courses). I think tire strategy should be completely up to the teams. If you can make the softs last, good for you. If you can keep pace on the hards, great.