Why do they kick their own when they are down?

[spectator22]

Why would anyone want to try and run a V8 Supercar team? The TKR developments started me thinking about just how ruthless and predatorial it is. There is a team in financial trouble and its biggest problem is not just survival, it is cobbling up some sort of entry for this week to avoid massive financial sanction by its own group. Surely an industry of any worth would in fact be trying to HELP one of its members in trouble rather than ripping into them for $$$ if they dont turn up at the next race. If things are as financially tight at DJR as reports suggest, will they too end up struggling along just to avoid being 'fined' by their own team group (rather than stopping for a race or two to try and get the $$ together to continue?). Its obvioulsy tough if youre not at the shiny end of the grid.

[touring fan01]

Professional motor racing is no different from any other profession or business.

For example, if a Real Estate Agency was having financial difficulties, would other Real Estate Agents step in and help them? Of course not.

Professional racing is not some sort of religion or charity....It's business.

It's the laws of the jungle - only the strong survive and prosper.

[NAC]

Originally Posted by spectator22

Why would anyone want to try and run a V8 Supercar team? The TKR developments started me thinking about just how ruthless and predatorial it is. There is a team in financial trouble and its biggest problem is not just survival, it is cobbling up some sort of entry for this week to avoid massive financial sanction by its own group. Surely an industry of any worth would in fact be trying to HELP one of its members in trouble rather than ripping into them for $$$ if they dont turn up at the next race. If things are as financially tight at DJR as reports suggest, will they too end up struggling along just to avoid being 'fined' by their own team group (rather than stopping for a race or two to try and get the $$ together to continue?). Its obvioulsy tough if youre not at the shiny end of the grid.

Good point 22. I'm with you on that one

[Sultan]

touring fan01, if a real estate closes, there's more business for it's competitors, however V8 Supercars lose teams, in the long run they will potentially lose business ie. fans, sponsors, TV, etc.

Of course there need to be clear guidelines regarding team attendance, but there must also be support there as well, I agree with you 22...

The sooner TEGA/VESA realise that perhaps the class is starting to get too big for its boots, the better. Ford are in deep poo, many teams are struggling, maybe it's time to look at things with a more open minded perspective...

[Westy01]

It is never going to happen, VESA/TEGA are never going to financially support any individual teams. The guys that own these struggling teams no the penalties for not fronting on race week ends and they agree to them when they sign on the dotted line to be Level 1 or 2 franchise owners. The biggest problem here in Australia is finding corporate $$$, there are only so many companies that will invest the dollars required to allow a V8 Supercar Team to compete at the pointy end. It is sad to see teams like TKR and even to some extent DJR struggle to get their car(s) to the grid of each round but unfortunately I believe we may see more teams in the same situation over the next few years. Maybe VESA should look at reducing the amount a level 1 or franchise costs to begin with.

[gcalvert]

Karl Marks would be proud of this conversation. Motorsport is about the best not about the mediocre. Survival of the fittest and all that stuff. It is a tough gig but they are all grownups and choose to get into it, there will always be winners and losers both on and off the track. If there are too many losers of the track then the value of the system will fall and the system will self correct (or self destruct if it doesn’t). It is the great thing about a free market economy.

Communism didn’t work in a broadly non-competitive social context. It has no place in any form of competition.

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by gcalvert

Karl Marks would be proud of this conversation. Motorsport is about the best not about the mediocre. Survival of the fittest and all that stuff. It is a tough gig but they are all grownups and choose to get into it, there will always be winners and losers both on and off the track. If there are too many losers of the track then the value of the system will fall and the system will self correct (or self destruct if it doesn’t). It is the great thing about a free market economy.

Communism didn’t work in a broadly non-competitive social context. It has no place in any form of competition.

Karl Marx

[Muznik]

Originally Posted by Westy01

It is never going to happen, VESA/TEGA are never going to financially support any individual teams. The guys that own these struggling teams no the penalties for not fronting on race week ends and they agree to them when they sign on the dotted line to be Level 1 or 2 franchise owners. The biggest problem here in Australia is finding corporate $$$, there are only so many companies that will invest the dollars required to allow a V8 Supercar Team to compete at the pointy end. It is sad to see teams like TKR and even to some extent DJR struggle to get their car(s) to the grid of each round but unfortunately I believe we may see more teams in the same situation over the next few years. Maybe VESA should look at reducing the amount a level 1 or franchise costs to begin with.

Why ?

I think this is the exact reason they have the round penalties & a franchise is so expensive.

They dont want underfunded half-ass attempts to compete. They only want teams in that have enough funds behind them that can guarantee they turn up to every round.

Otherwise it will go back to when teams used to pick & choose which rounds they attended. For example, a team whose sponsors dont have any exposure to the NZ (or Bahrain - but that would be the majority) market could simply go "we cant afford to do that round, we'll wait for the next one."

I think the new franchise structure (all Level 1's) and the TREC are moves in the right direction it just may be a season or two too late for a few teams.

Having said that I believe the current fines ($150k/round) are extreme but I suppose they are meant as a detraction to even the richest teams.

Can anyone advise what happens with the fine funds ? Are they distributed thru the other teams ? Do they go to the event promotor ? Or do they go straight into Aussie Bernie & Co's pockets ?

[Denosaur]

These guys aren't the first to have such a rule if you don't turn up, F1 has the same. Thou if you think back to the time when TWR/Arrows went belly up, I think the FIA gave them a race or two to sort out what they are doing before they got fined. But I think Arrows worked out a loop hole, that if they turned up for the weekend, but didn't run anything, just set up the garage and so on they could get around it. Then they official removed themselves from competition.

Ok, it may not sound right and against the spirit of humanity, but contracts and agreements like that are used every day in business, most commenly in the construction industry. Yes they may be late fees charged to construction contractor, but it still works on the same principle.

But I must agree, talk about kicking the hell out of them when there already down.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Muznik

Can anyone advise what happens with the fine funds ? Are they distributed thru the other teams ? Do they go to the event promotor ? Or do they go straight into Aussie Bernie & Co's pockets ?

TEGA have only levied one fine.. on JFR... and it took 3 years to get the money for that! Well sort of.. the franchise licence income was restricted at one point, and there was a balance.... but the dollars would more likely than not sat in trust in the accounts of TEGA, and when eventually received, used for TEGA-type work, like keeping the lights on...

[Pro Racer]

if teams leave TEGA/V8SA loose money may not be now but in the future, so i am 100% with you 22 on this one.

[naughtymutt]

what is faulkner doing these days?

[Raglanparade]

working at woolworths to pay back his massive bill to V8SA

[The Hrt Kid]

but v8s is not a real estate its supposed to be a sport. afl teams have been in cash crisis before and the afl have helped teams out. why cant v8sca use some of that money pit to help teams out?

[MPA]

Originally Posted by gcalvert

Karl Marks would be proud of this conversation. Motorsport is about the best not about the mediocre. Survival of the fittest and all that stuff. It is a tough gig but they are all grownups and choose to get into it, there will always be winners and losers both on and off the track. If there are too many losers of the track then the value of the system will fall and the system will self correct (or self destruct if it doesn’t). It is the great thing about a free market economy.

Communism didn’t work in a broadly non-competitive social context. It has no place in any form of competition.

So why do the teams share the same common tyres, diffs, gearboxes, etc? Surely in a free market motor race the team with the best bucks can buy the best equipment?

[gcalvert]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Karl Marx

Ta.

[gcalvert]

Originally Posted by MPA

So why do the teams share the same common tyres, diffs, gearboxes, etc? Surely in a free market motor race the team with the best bucks can buy the best equipment?

Cause they have to. If they didn't they wouldn't. They would chase the edge on the other guy. Wherever freedoms exisit the money flows. Is the natural order of things.

[Madbugger]

Originally Posted by The Hrt Kid

but v8s is not a real estate its supposed to be a sport. afl teams have been in cash crisis before and the afl have helped teams out. why cant v8sca use some of that money pit to help teams out?

For the teams, it is not a sport , it is business, they are only there to make money.

If you believe that it is only a sport then can I interest you in a lovely bridge with a nice harbour view...going cheaply

[NAC]

Originally Posted by Madbugger

For the teams, it is not a sport , it is business, they are only there to make money.

If that was the case then DJ would have got out years ago not to mention many others in the game. How much of DJ's own money has he pored into it.

I think you will find there are many out there that are there for the passion. For those that can make money out of good on them, why should't you profit from a sport you love.

[Madbugger]

At no point did I say that they shouldn't make money, that's the whole point of being in business.

Lots of viable business can lose money and continue to operate if they have the reserves to do so, or can see a way of trading out of difficulties.

I can only speculate on why DJ continued to pour his own money into the race team only DJ himself could answer this question.

I read in an interview with Craig Gore from WPS that the money he spent on his raceteam was returned many times over by the publicity and income it generated for his other businesses.

Also in a conversation my BIL had with Brad Jones a few years ago he said if him and Kim didn't make xxx dollars a year profit, then the would sell the business.

[MPA]

Perhaps we should not view the no-show team slug as a fine.

It's more like a refund.

When the Black Wiggle can can demand huge bucket loads of cash for his full grid of cars to turn up for a promoter, the promoter should be getting a refund if teams stay home.

[cptkablamo]

Don't they say - 'the best way to come a motorsport millionare is to start as a billionare'???

Lets face it, at the beginning of the year such a situation for TKR had to be probable - at least in the teams eyes, even if they were not prepared to admit it. If they wanted to stay in motorsport, could not have they supported another, cheaper catagory, or failing that, taken a year off, or hired a driver with a lot more $$$

To run V8s in their current vane, you have to have these massive fines...they are not there to be a charity nor would they really miss that one car... Do you have to like it? No...but really, could they have avoided this? maybe...