'ChampVirgin'

[Frezzal]

Hi all

I'm heading up to surfers paradise in 3 days to spend a week on the beach before my FIRST EVER! Champcar race...

I'm an F1-fan by nature so motorsport isn't all new to me. But Champcar is and this forum looks like the best place to get a good overview from people in the know!

What do you think I need to know to enjoy this race to the max? ie;

- who is the good guy?
- who is the villain (Champcars version of schumacher! hahaa)
- who has done a stellar drive this year and knocked people's socks off?
- who is the man to beat? Team to beat?
- is anyone walking away too easily?
- which one is the spunkiest boy

....and whatever else you think I need to know!

Cheers
Frezzal

[enemy-ace]

- who is the good guy? Allmendinger
- who is the villain (Champcars version of schumacher! hahaa) Paul Tracy
- who has done a stellar drive this year and knocked people's socks off? Bourdais
- who is the man to beat? Team to beat? Bourdais
- is anyone walking away too easily? Bourdais
- which one is the spunkiest boy Tracy, Dominguez

Have fun. I am an F1 fan as well (at least initially) but Champ Car is great racing.

Oh! and welcome to the forum.

[marcus]

and keep an eye on Australia's own David Besnard making his Champcar debut , he should be the black WPS car planted in the first turn wall

[racerkeke]

You forgot "who's a pretty good driver but whines when he doesn't do well?" That'd be Junqueira, Bourdais' teammate at Newman-Haas, and second in the championship. He thinks he oughta be in F1 -- you decide.

And "team most cheered for because they are perpetual underdogs" (think Minardi) is the Coyne team. Coyne is doing very well this year with Oriol Servia but I cheer for them just on principle.

I'm sure there are more stories but these are the two that leaped to mind right away!

Hope you've got a good seat for the race, because it's usually a barnburner. Hint: you can tell the 55 and 4 cars apart by the colour of the chili pepper on the nose of the car. Same with the maple leaf on the nose of the Forsythe cars (not Lavin's, he's not Canadian).

keke

[Snrub]

Champ Car is a very different environment from F1, far more friendly and open. I don't know if there's a "good guy" per say, most of them strike me as good people.

Little background:
Champ Car is a very competitive environment because the equipment is very equal. That said, setups play a huge role and the Newman-Hass team with former F3000 champs Sebastian Bourdais and Bruno Junquira have dominated the season. The dominance goes back to the 2002 season when Da Matta was with the team and they somehow managed to produce a catalog of some of the most dominant setups in champ car history.

The main competition comes from Forsythe racing, which has Paul Tracy (last year's champion), Patrick Carpantier and Rodolfo Lavin (who's only there because he brings sponsorship). Last year Forsythe had more resources and Tracy beat the NH drivers through shear ability. Tracy is sort of the bad boy on the track. He is super aggressive and competitive, even though off the track he's mild mannered.

* Herdez with Mario Dominguez and Ryan Hunter-Raey are sort of like the equivilant to BAR. Dominguez is Sato-like in his passing and aggressiveness, but is the team's dominant driver (and IMO very good).

* RuSport is a new team this year and has two very fast and nice drivers in AJ Almendinger and Jourdain. AJ is a rookie sensation. He won the Barber Dodge championship in his first year, Formula Atlantics in his first year and has shown great speed and beaten his more experienced and extremely talented teammate. Many have touted him to be the next American in F1, etc.

* Rocketsports has Alex Tagliani and Guy Smith (who's new mid-season and still learning). Tagliani is another like JPM or Sato where he is agressive and passes often. Rocketsports and RuSport are kind of like McLaren and Williams this year - periodically very competitive, always reasonably competitive.

Rounding it out:
* MiJack: Justin Wilson (F3000 champ - great talent moves poor car forward), Nelson Philipe (sp? Inexperienced pay driver, although he's starting to get up to speed)
* Walker: The true "Minardi" for 2004, uncompetitive chasis with the very talented Mario Haberfeld doing the best he can.
* Coyne: Underdog until this year. Oriol Servia (done marvelous things with his car), Gaston Mazzacanne (shouldn't be driving).
* PKV: Team that many would have expected to do more. Jimmy Vasser (former series champ - then many lack luster years, but IMO is performing well again), Roberto Gonzalez (rookie that brings sponsorship to team, but has shown some speed)

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Frezzal
Hi all



- who is the good guy? - A.J. Almendinger(rookie American, very fast, very nice guy), Justin Wilson(as you know, came from F1, is doing an excellent job in an underfunded team)
- who is the villain (Champcars version of schumacher! hahaa) - Paul Tracy(very aggressive, contreversial, but nonetheless unquestionably fast)
- who has done a stellar drive this year and knocked people's socks off? - A.J. Almendinger(winning rookie of the year class, I expected him to do even better, but I think he's impressed a lot people)
- who is the man to beat? Team to beat? Sebastien Bourdais. No ifs ands or buts about it. He's the fastest driver out there no doubt and on the fastest team. If it weren't for bad luck and things beyond his control he'd be walking away in the points more so than he is.
- which one is the spunkiest boy - I'd say A.J. Almendinger. He's young, and very approachable to interview. When he makes a mistake he tells you he messed up and feels terrible about it and genuinely seems to mean it. I love that sort of honesty in a driver. He's also has a sense of humour.

[Cowboy]

Snrub that was an awesome post. Nice break down of all the teams and drivers.

Frezzal, welcome to Ten-Tenths. Enjoy the race, I will garantee you will be talking about for a month or more after it is all over. I highly recommend getting a paddock pass, you will be very suprised as too how close you can get to all of the cars and drivers. It is a priceless experience for your first live race.

[vatuloa]

Bring your raincoat it is forcats to be wet untill thursday Partly cloudy 15c to 26c
Friday partly cloudy 16c to 27c
Saturday partly Cloudy 14c to 28c
Sunday partly cloudy 16c to 27c
You can follow the the weather on http://mirror.bom.gov.au/products/IDR502.shtml#image

If the above is correct it will be the a change from the past races

[Frezzal]

Not only entertaining, but incredibly informative! You really think the Aussie will plant it in the wall? Hmm debut race, I guess it's bound to happen!

After the Aussie crashes, it sounds like I'll boo Tracy and cheer Allmendinger...I love it at Albert Park when I boo the ferraris and cheer the Macs, it's fun being in a relative minority, hehhahaha

Keep it coming guys, its super!

[Snrub]

Originally posted by Frezzal
it sounds like I'll boo Tracy and cheer Allmendinger...

One (long) twist to the bad boy story. The redemption of Paul Tracy:
Back in the rivalry between fans of the IRL and Champ Car is pretty fierce. The series was in trouble and Toyota and Honda were planning to defect from Champ Car to the IRL bringing with them several teams and a number of drivers. A number of the Champ car drivers participated in the IRL's Indy 500. During the weeks of leadup to the Indy 500, the IRL fans booed Tracy for being unappologetic that he was representing Champ Car and rubbing it in everyone's face every chance he got. During the race, with only a few laps to go Helio Castro Neives (who had defected with Penske to the IRL that year) was leading and running low on fuel, Tracy was in second. Helio was slow because he was running on fumes and Tracy was gaining quickly from behind. Tracy passed him and an accident occured elsewhere on the track. The race finished under yellow. In other words Paul Tracy had beaten the defector in a car he was far less familiar with at the world's most famous race. A yellow was displayed after the pass, but race officials (read: CC fan's arch nemesis Tony George, the man who created the IRL) insisted that the yellow was displayed before Tracy passed. Later despite the IRL officials refusal to provide full data, Tracy's team owner Barry Green, proved conclusively in a hearing to the IRL officials that Tracy had passed before the yellow, but they ignored the evidence. At the end of the 2002 season Champ Car nearly imploded and many left, but one man who stood by the series was Paul Tracy.

The point of this very long story is that IMO Tracy deserves a certain amount of respect by all who enjoy Champ Car racing. I won't sugar coat it, the guy is a head case and a jerk and I'm not saying anyone has to like him.

I will also add that when Tracy is in the perfect team environment he's the fastest guy out there. jjspierx knows what he's talking about but I disagree with him from a raw speed perspective regarding Bourdais. Because setups are difficult to judge, look at the passing record between Bourdais and Tracy if one wants to determine who's fastest. Tracy has smoked Bourdais on a number of occasions. That said, there's no question that Bourdais has dominated this year.

[macdaddy]

I'll echo Cowboy in strongly suggesting that you pick up a "Paddock Pass" for the event. IMO, this is what separates F1 from CC the most. You won't believe how close you can get to the drivers and their machines. Be sure to bring a camera and an autograph pen, if you so desire.

Myself, and many others here, consider a Paddock Pass as being a "mandatory" part of any race weekend. Money well spent.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by Snrub


I will also add that when Tracy is in the perfect team environment he's the fastest guy out there. jjspierx knows what he's talking about but I disagree with him from a raw speed perspective regarding Bourdais. Because setups are difficult to judge, look at the passing record between Bourdais and Tracy if one wants to determine who's fastest. Tracy has smoked Bourdais on a number of occasions. That said, there's no question that Bourdais has dominated this year.

Ok, ok, I know this is off-topic, but I gotta say this. Sorry to disagree Snrub, but its all in good fun I stand by what I said, Bourdais is hands down faster than Tracy in identical cars in identical situations. I'm not saying he'd be way faster, but he definitely has raw speed over Tracy. When it comes to aggression, Tracy definitely has that over Bourdais, and sometimes in race situations that is helpful to him(making passes, etc.) At the awards ceremony last year, even though Bourdais came in 5th(I think) he won some Bridgestone award(I forget the name of it) where they took the fastest lap from each race for each driver and totalled it up to make one theoretical 30 something mile long track and Bourdais was 15 seconds faster than Paul Tracy who was second. I don't totally buy the Newman Haas has the best setups thing. That may be true, but every driver has their own style, its not like they can just stick the same setup on a car year after year and have it be the best. It may give them an advantage SOMETIMES, but its definitely not like they have a definite advantage at every track. Anyways, thats all I got to say.

[macdaddy]

Hard to argue with that, jj.

[fobi0]

Originally posted by Snrub
I will also add that when Tracy is in the perfect team environment he's the fastest guy out there. jjspierx knows what he's talking about but I disagree with him from a raw speed perspective regarding Bourdais. Because setups are difficult to judge, look at the passing record between Bourdais and Tracy if one wants to determine who's fastest. Tracy has smoked Bourdais on a number of occasions. That said, there's no question that Bourdais has dominated this year.

And Tracy's been smoked by his far less respected (at least in the eyes of their boss) teammate on far more occasions than Tracy has smoked Bourdais.

[Dov]

Originally posted by jjspierx
At the awards ceremony last year, even though Bourdais came in 5th(I think) he won some Bridgestone award(I forget the name of it) where they took the fastest lap from each race for each driver and totalled it up to make one theoretical 30 something mile long track and Bourdais was 15 seconds faster than Paul Tracy who was second.

From CCWS.com:

Along with Tracy, the other big winner on the night was Newman/Haas Racing’s impressive rookie driver Sebastien Bourdais. The young Frenchman, who won at Brands Hatch, EuroSpeedway and Cleveland, collected the Jim Trueman Rookie of the Year Award as well as the new Bridgestone “Grip on the Season” award, presented to the driver who, on the whole. posted the fastest race lap on all 18 races of the year. Had all 18 events been combined into one 36.3 mile lap, the Frenchman would have been streets ahead of all the competition, with a combined best lap of 19m06.229s over the theoretical 36.637 mile circuit, for an average speed of 115.029 mph. Such was Bourdais’ pace, that he won the seasonal award by more then two seconds over his closest competitor.

[Snrub]

While Pat has had better results than PT, I disagree that he's been faster this year. Name a race where Pat obliterated PT? (simply finishing ahead doesn't necessarly count, you need to qualify the result) Also, PT has been in the position to win more often than Pat.

I'll be bold and continue the discussion : The NH guys say it constantly, their baseline setups are killer. It means they've got a minimum 3rd place qualifying car and they spend the weekend ensuring they get a pole position car. Setups at that level aren't preferences, they're maximizing the potential of the car and then tweaking it a tiny bit to a driver's preference. Good drivers learn to drive the setup rather than setting up the car purely to their liking. If there isn't a setup difference, then why has Junky improved substantially compared to PT?

Mexico city was a great example of the setup differences between NH and Forsythe. PT had pole in '03 but despite similar weather conditions they were absolutely lost and experimenting like the new teams this year.

While fastest lap is a good indication of raw speed, I still think there are other factors to consider. Why wasn't Bourdais able to be more competitive in the second half of '03 if he was putting in these smoking laps? My feeling is that PT got many of those poles and wins without having the top setup that Bourdais & Junky had.

[jjspierx]

Well mainly because he was a rookie and didn't know any of the tracks. Second, he was still obviously very quick but he had some bad luck as well as made some rookie mistakes. The guy took pole position on his first two Champcar races ever. IMO, had he shown a little more patience and made less mistakes he would have taken the chamionship last year, because he was definitely the fastest last year. PT has been around longer, he is more aggressive and maybe even has more racecraft, which is more conducive to racing.

Also, why doesn't Forsythe have setups that are as good as Newman Haas? Obviously the Chassis' have been the same for the last few years, but every year the chassis's change the old setups become more and outdated. Even when the chassis's stay the same the setups become outdated. What makes Bourdais AND Junky fast is they both know how to setup a car to their liking. I'm not saying NHR setups aren't a good baseline, but if you put Gaston Mazzacane or Phillipe Nelson in his car, I guarentee you the setup wouldn't get the car to a 3rd place qual or better as you said.

[Snrub]

Regarding the fast laps (ment to say this before). My feeling is that PT got many of those poles and wins without having the top setup that Bourdais & Junky had, but they weren't able to keep up the pace the way PT did. While I do think Bourdais is faster this year because he's been everywhere, lack of track knowledge doesn't explain fast laps last year.

Last year despite their early success, Forsythe was initially way behind on setups after the last minute engineering shakeup. IMO Junky was having a miserable time and Bourdais simply performed as he was going to perform through the year. As Junky got his act together and Forsythe started to have better setups Bourdais fell behind. This year Forsythe lost Cicale and has its resources stretched with three cars. The cars haven't changed so NH is always ahead. It's hard to catch up to the best when they're ahead. (note Ferrari in F1) Forsythe has had constant issues and thus is unable to match NH's rate of increase let alone catch up as NH improves their incredible setups. (note that lap times have improved substantially this year) Guys like Mazzacane are not world class drivers and even if they were capable of putting in the laps with the right setup they're not going to be able to get that last bit of perfection on the setup. I will agree that Bourdais appears to be exceptional when it comes to working with NH's exceptional engineering and getting that last little bit.

[macdaddy]

Snrub answered for me by taking the words right out of my mouth.

This year Forsythe lost Cicale and has its resources stretched with three cars.

"Cicale" is the key word.