Why Barrichello was wrong about the Safety Car

[Wrex]

from www.grandprix.com

RUBENS BARRICHELLO said after the Canadian GP that Safety Car wrecked his hopes of winning the Canadian GP and criticized the officials for having made that decision.

"Basically I think there was no reason to bring it out," Barrichello said. "The car was parked and I don't think anybody would have run into that car."

Barrichello is probably too young to remember what happened in a similar situation 22 years ago in Long Beach when the Brabham of Ricardo Zunino was left beside the race track after it broke down. Clay Regazzoni, at the wheel of an Ensign, arrived at the end of the main straight and suffered a brake failure. His car ran into the abandoned Brabham and was launched into the air, over a tire barrier and hit the concrete wall at the back of the run-off area. Regazzoni suffered serious back injuries which left him in a wheelchair.

While it is easy to criticize officials it should be remembered that the men responsible for these decisions are Charlie Whiting and Herbie Blash, both of whom have long experience in F1 and both of whom have reason to remember the Long Beach accident as at the time they were both working for Brabham.

The fact that it took them several laps to decide that a Safety Car was necessary is an indication that they did not want to disrupt the race but as the BAR-Honda could not be moved by the marshals there was not choice but to send out the Safety Car to allow the safety workers to get the job done without any danger to themselves.

I guess it's easy to critise when it ruins your race, but safety has to come 1st. I'm curious though, why could'nt they just back it through the fence anyway?

[Gt_R]

Well, i read the article too, and thought, well, it makes good sense. So what if it ruins a race? Safety should come first in such senarios.

I guess they can't back it through the fence because its dangerous for marshals to run onto the narrow circuit when race cars blast full speed inches away and/or JV's car's problem caused the wheels to lock up.

[EvilPumpkin]

There's an old marshalling saying "where one goes, more will surely follow". It can be very dangerous to marshal trackside - yellow flags are not necessarily any protection. I'm sure we all remember Mr. Heidfeld and the Medical Car as a good case in point.

Possibly 2 marshals being killed in 2 years isn't enough for Rubens? We're all supposed to lay down our lives so he can get first place and then let his team mate overtake him? Ok that's a bit harsh - but it does put his comments into perspective a bit as far as I'm concerned.

I'm always fascinated when drivers make statements like this - we're taught that drivers have a very limited field of vision and a lot of other stuff to concentrate on - so how is it that whenever something like this happens, a driver suddenly becomes a) an instant marshalling expert and b) seems to know so very much about what happened when what they should have been doing was watching the other cars, the track and the flags - and driving their cars to the best advantage?

Besides, didn't I hear that the car in question was stuck in gear?

[Wrex]

Funny thing is, had the Marshalls gone onto the track, and tradegy followed, everyone (incuding Rubins) would be saying "why did'nt they just bring out the safety car?".

IMO, it was dumb for Rubins to sound off without knowing all the facts. And even if he's right, the team should air these complaints, not the drivers that the marshalls are risking themselves to protect.

[EvilPumpkin]

Well I suppose in fairness he was complaining more about the organisers who made the decision but it still reflects on the marshals as the unspoken criticism is "why didn't they shift the car" and the outcome of his comments is that he doesn't consider marshal safety to be more important than his chances for winning a race.

[Valve Bounce]

OK, consider this " waved double yellows at the approach to the abandoned car, hook a winch up to it and wiinch the thing back off the track. yes!! There was room to do that. I could have done that in less time than it took for the stewards to decide whether to put the safety car onto the track. Sometimes people with some lateral thinking is required.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[EvilPumpkin]

I didn't know you were a marshal Valve - you should swing by the marshals' forum - we've got quite a few Oz marshals in there

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are all sorts of protocols for dealing with F1 cars and what can and cannot be done - and who can do it.

As for there being room to do it, from what I remember, the winch vehicle would have been in a head on position on the entrance to the sector. As I've already noted above, waved yellows don't count for very much in any form of racing - when was the last time you saw someone seriously slow down for a waved yellow? F1 car vs winch truck at high speed...I'm thinking someone is going to get injured. That's just my own opinion of course.

[Wrex]

Sorry VB, but no support from me either. Right or wrong, the decision of the marshalls at the scene should be final.

They can be questioned, yes. But not publically by someone with absolutly no idea.

As for the F1 car vs the winch truck ......

[EvilPumpkin]

that's working on the assumption that it was the decision of the marshals at all. Marshals will advise the situation and make a recommendation as to what they feel should be done, but the final decision is made by the COC or equivalent.

Also, F1 operates posts remotely by radio and looks at all posts via CCTV so even if the marshal makes a recommendation it's quite possible for them to be overridden based on visual information being viewed in the tower.

[Gt_R]

To be nice to Rubens, i think it's nothing but a harmless but ill-thought out statement... afterall, his strategy was wasted, and he was frustrated with the DC incident...

I was quite curious why it took so long for the safety car to be deployed. Perhaps the COC needs more time to weigh the pros-cons to come to the correct decision? Anyway, pulling the tractor out when cars are screaming by is out of the question where safety is concerned.

[Wrex]

Unless we want to turn F1 onto a blood sport. Opps *just realizes he may have given Bernie an idea for when the ratings drop*

[f1manoz]

The safety car was the right decision as it would have been unsafe for a marshal to go out to retrieve the car without the slightest possibility of something perhaps going wrong.

Better to be safe than sorry. It's just sour grapes from Rubens this time.

[Maxmil]

I went back to my tape to review that incident to try to answer some questions I had in my mind about JPM's pitstop. JV parked his car on the 10th lap and climbed through a hole in the fence. A couple of marshalls appeared from behind the car and tried to wheel it backwards through the gate without success. It was not until the 12th lap that the safety car was put on standby, and it came out on the 13th. Shortly thereafter the tow truck came backing out of the gate and up to JV's car. The safety car was out for 3 laps. That's all we were shown on the ABC broadcast.

It seems pretty clear to me that for some reason JV's car could not be pushed backwards by hand(s) and it was felt necessary to deploy the safety car if the tow truck was going to have to go out on the track - even the edge of the track. I would not have left JV's car in that position, and I don't think anyone else who had the responsibility would have either. It wasn't in such a bad place, but another incident like Long Beach was certainly a possibility, and there was no need to run that risk. The safety car was not brought out to protect the marshalls who were already out there trying to push the car backwards off the track. It was brought out when they decided to bring out the truck.

PS I recall that Reggazoni broke both his legs also.

[EvilPumpkin]

I have no dispute about the decision, but I admit to being curious about what took so long in terms of a Safety Car decision - the marshals had been trackside attempting to move the car for quite some time before the decision was made.

[Gt_R]

Did JV's car problem a very sudden one? Did JV do his best to pull off his car and stop as fast as he could, just like what any responsible driver would do? Just curious~

[Valve Bounce]

I never said that the truck had to go out onto the track. You get the cable, secure it to the car, and winch it from the truck which is off the track. I said winch, not tow. Done porperly, this would have taken less than 60 seconds. Sorry about not viewing the tape but Brazil vs Costa Rica was a higher priority and I used the tape. I never intended to view the tape again.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[EvilPumpkin]

From what I saw, he did the best he could. I'm racking my brains now to remember details but he got the car off the track near a marshal's post in as safe a position as it could be in that area. I'm not familiar with the track so I don't know if there were better positions he could have made it to - or how bad his car actually was.

Given his knowledge of the circuit, I would be suprised if he could have done better than he did.

[EvilPumpkin]

Valve, I'm fully open to correction on this but if you tried to drag an F1 car that was in gear along the side of the track on a winch, surely that would do damage to it?

[Maxmil]

I can't recall ever seeing a car that was stuck in gear being winched any way except up. It would do the tires no good, thats for sure. If it could have been rolled, the marshalls would have done it.

[Mania]

The marshalls did the right thing. I remember last year Villeneuve and DC were crying about the restart in Germany but they probably would have sung a different tune if one of their tyres had exploded due to the debris on the track. Similarly, the marshalls in this case couldnt move the car so they went for the safety car.

Some drivers benefit with a safety car and some dont but thats the way it goes - Im sure none of them would have enjoyed having an accident or whatever if the safety car had NOT come out when it did.

Just sour grapes. Racing drivers are like that sometimes

[paul-collins]

Hey, at least Safety Car procedures are well-defined these days. Just finished reading an article in Motorsport about the first real use of the SC (Canadian GP 1973) in F1, and boy, what a mess that was.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
I never said that the truck had to go out onto the track. You get the cable, secure it to the car, and winch it from the truck which is off the track. I said winch, not tow.

Two problems here. Firstly, somebody's got to go out on track to attach the cable. Secondly, the car's not going to steer itself - somebody's got to stand alongside the car & steer it while it's being winched to safety. Would you be prepared to to either of these on a live track with cars passing by at race speed?

The safety car fulfils two functions. The obvious one is that it slows the cars down; the one that's less obvious to spectators is that it bunches the cars up, meaning that marshals, recovery crews etc., can work trackside knowing that there will be intervals of a couple of minutes during which no cars will be passing - important if it is necessary to cross the track for any reason.

[Valve Bounce]

OK, this is how it should have been done. One marshall runs out with a double sling and attaches it to the rear drive shafts. Takes about 30 seconds. The second marshal follows with the cable and attaches it to the sling, and retreats behind the barriers, max 30 seconds. The car was on grass, and winching it back to safety while the two marshals are safely behind the barriers is no problem. May I remind the naysayers that there were marshals around the car for longer than that.
Isn't it typical that whenever someone comes up with an innovative idea, there are many who will rush up to say it's a lousy idea.
I've had a 4WD winched out of a sandy creek in much more difficult circumstances in New Guinea without any problems.
Also, having supervised snow clearing for 3 years in the Snowy Mountains, sometimes in very difficult conditions, I would say that I have had the knowledge and experience of winching out cars trucks, and even traactors from ditches, drains, and just plain mud bogs many times.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[EvilPumpkin]

Valve, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not saying it's a lousy idea. All I'm asking is that if an F1 car - which is a rather fragile beast when you get right down to it - is stuck in gear and you drag it along the ground, won't that cause damage to the car? The car was on the grass but would have had to go over concrete to get back through the snatch gap. And if you did a raised winch on it then wouldn't people would have to hold the car to stop it from swinging into the barriers?

Even at Club level if you do anything that may potentially damage the car, the owner will go mental. I have even heard of cases of Rescue Teams being threatened with legal action because they cut up a car to get the driver out!

I'm not saying that your idea wouldn't work - obviously it would in terms of vehicle removal. But I'm not sure what the consequences would be to the car by doing it or what agreements the teams have regarding damage incurred as a result of vehicle retrieval. I'm perfecly happy to go with any good idea as long as my queries about it are answered satisfactorily.

[ljakse]

While I don't wanna go into discussion of VB's idea, I wanna quote Liz's words 'SHUT UP AND DRIVE!'.
I really hate double standards. How come dear Rubinho didn't ask 'Why is the safety car so long on the track?' last year in Malasiya? Simple, it suited him then. But now, when he suffered 'coz of it, he is crying. Some times it works for you, sometimes it works for the others. Basically, as it's name says, it's there for safety reasons.
And especially now, when you seem to be consistant&fast, SHUT UP AND DRIVE!