Bouley Bay 14th july

[DaveK]

For those of us that haven't been able to go to the channel isles this week the results are as follows

1st runoff
Martin Groves
Simon Durling
Mike Dean, Rob Turnbull (equal)
Chris Merrick
Scott Moran
Roger Moran
Paul Haimes
Tom New
Paul Ranson

2nd runoff
Martin Groves
Scott Moran
Mike Dean
Chris Merrick
Simon Durling
Roger Moran
Paul Haimes
Karl Davidson
Paul Ranson
Will Mason

Willem toet crashed in practice and was unable to continue although the pilbeam should be repaired for Val de terre

Dave

[Judd]

Thanks Dave,

I needed my hillclimbing fix this morning!

[MikeBz]

Ditto!

[Steve Wilkinson]

It looks like Martin Groves is heading for the championship and should clinch it at Craigantlet all being well.

[b1ackcr0w]

Hmm,

Chris Merrick & Scotty Moran's performances look promising.

[Rod Birley]

I was there, good meeting and hospitality. Simon Durling went well in the first run off. Will try and post some pictures.

[pilbeam buddy]

willems car all repaired ready to go courtesy of team moose racing

[Rod Birley]

Tried posting pics but no luck, sorry. Not allowed to post attachments apparently!

[blackx]

Originally Posted by pilbeam buddy

willems car all repaired ready to go courtesy of team moose racing

Well done to Team Moose......

You wouldnt find that kind of cameradarie(sp?) in F1 and the like would you.....

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by blackx

Well done to Team Moose......

You wouldnt find that kind of cameradarie(sp?) in F1 and the like would you.....

Quiet right, however it wasn't always so. F1 used to be like Speed events with easy access to paddocks, teams swapping spares and even helping one another.

Speed eventing has the old competetive spirit that drives people to win but not at all costs. They like to win but they like to beat ALL the opposition.

12 months ago at the Sprint Championship Forum the question of capping racing cars at two litres came up once again. Before anyone who runs such a car could comment ALL the 1100 and 1600 class runners lept in and said NO. They wanted the opportunity to beat the big cars because that is what our sport is all about.

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Quiet right, however it wasn't always so. F1 used to be like Speed events with easy access to paddocks, teams swapping spares and even helping one another.

Speed eventing has the old competetive spirit that drives people to win but not at all costs. They like to win but they like to beat ALL the opposition.

12 months ago at the Sprint Championship Forum the question of capping racing cars at two litres came up once again. Before anyone who runs such a car could comment ALL the 1100 and 1600 class runners lept in and said NO. They wanted the opportunity to beat the big cars because that is what our sport is all about.

Exactly

Anyway.............Back on topic before the mods get their big sticks out...

[Woolley]

Nah, that's all very topical in my book.

Sounds like Deano put in a load of work on Willem's car as well as having half the field staying in his house or camping in his garden. It really is what the sport is all about and good to see the spirit alive and kicking. On a similar vein (but a little further off topic) it's great to see the on-board footage when Grovesy broke the Shelsley record and all the other drivers come over to shake hands, thrilled at the acievement.

What it's also about is seeing Tom New, Trevor Willis, Steve Owen and Will Mason in the run-offs. i can't see any justification for putting an engine limit anyway, because you can already have just as big an accident in a 2 litre. I'd I suggest that the biggest change in speed is down to tyres - we even get 'marbles' off them sometimes. Anyone care to correct me on that one?

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Woolley

. I'd I suggest that the biggest change in speed is down to tyres - we even get 'marbles' off them sometimes. Anyone care to correct me on that one?

I have seen a build up of rubber fragments at the side of the track at the end of the day but am yet to find small spherical objects made of glass and used for entertainment in the playground...

Seriously though......I agree...
Tyre technology has come a long way.....Engines in the big cars are not too far removed from years ago.....Still F1 v8 based in most cases so the improvements have come in tyres and aero packages..

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by blackx

Seriously though......I agree...
Tyre technology has come a long way.....Engines in the big cars are not too far removed from years ago.....Still F1 v8 based in most cases so the improvements have come in tyres and aero packages..

I think that Nicholson McLaren might beg to differ! The progression in the engines over the last three years has seen a quantum leap in performance. Now you more or less have to have an NME unit in the back if you run in the over two-litre class especially if you buy a Gould!

The aerodynamics question is moot. I noticed at Wiscombe Park last year that there were big differences in the over two-litre class as they accelerated up Castle Straight towards Martini. About half the field did not disturb the overhanging branches which would indicate that they are not 'moving' sufficient air to create a great deal of down force.

Maybe the development of aerodynamics is the next big step for Hillclimbing as they have already cracked the power barrier.

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by blackx

Tyre technology has come a long way.....Engines in the big cars are not too far removed from years ago.....Still F1 v8 based in most cases so the improvements have come in tyres and aero packages..

I'm not so sure on that point blackx, whilst chassis and tyre technolgy has undoubtable improved, the power outputs that the engines produce now are quite a bit more . Whereas 500bhp used to be acceptable from a 4ltr engine, now this is being got from 2.5ltr engines with 600+ being the accepted norm.
The way the engines make the power has also improved with the way that the engines accelerate (graeme's V10 is a perfect example).

Having said all that though Andy priaulx's val de terre record still stands with a MP58 running crossply tyres and a 3.9dfl

Dave

[pilbeam buddy]

i think you mean bouley bay (jsy) still stands
the gsy record of David Grace was hammered 3 seasons ago
and is now a second quicker
the bouley record still stands due the last 3 seasons hill too cold and this season too bl--dy hot.having said that the intial traction for stop start is better on the softly sprung pilbeams v the ultimate Goulds (not that i am biased of course).
moose

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by DaveK

Having said all that though Andy priaulx's val de terre record still stands with a MP58 running crossply tyres and a 3.9dfl

Dave

Dave, you forgot to add the TALENT CO-EFFICIENT and the Local Knowledge!

I feel certain someone as talented as Andy P is, and was, would easily qualify for Top Twelve Run-offs this season if they were in an MP58 with a 3.9 DFL.

What I find disturbing is the number of three to four year old over two litre racing cars that don't get in!

[pilbeam buddy]

another superb write up for top 12

[pilbeam buddy]

how do you get a signature ballesd that up i think
moose

[Paul Ranson]

I think cool, or perhaps warm, signatures are broken.

Paul

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

I think that Nicholson McLaren might beg to differ! The progression in the engines over the last three years has seen a quantum leap in performance. Now you more or less have to have an NME unit in the back if you run in the over two-litre class especially if you buy a Gould!

The aerodynamics question is moot. I noticed at Wiscombe Park last year that there were big differences in the over two-litre class as they accelerated up Castle Straight towards Martini. About half the field did not disturb the overhanging branches which would indicate that they are not 'moving' sufficient air to create a great deal of down force.

Maybe the development of aerodynamics is the next big step for Hillclimbing as they have already cracked the power barrier.

Apart from the compact and lightwieght NME engine and the new(to the hills) 2.5 v6 a lot of the big bangers are still ex F1 v8's...
Ok......Power outputs have increased but there are not as far removed from their predesessors as chassis and tyres are from theirs..

[b1ackcr0w]

I think the improvements in engine tech have not all been about power output. The improvements have been, Power to weight, you now have to carry a lot less metal to generate the same HP - and you can't defy the laws of physics when you're driving uphill. Size, the engines are becoming physically smaller, allowing more choice about how you distribute weight in a chassis, allowing for better balance and handling. Mapping and driveability, increased electronic technology gives an engine which delivers a much wider, more driveable power band - The classic case in point being Wight Junior winning two Championships without changing the ratios in his box once. Although the principals of the Combustion engine haven't radically changed (don't think we're likely to get rotarys any time soon), I do think the small steps taken in all these areas have amounted to a huge difference between the NME & Pride units of today compared to the monster lumps from a few years ago.

I think Hillclimbers will have to look to F1 for the next steps in Technology. I'd suggest that the big gains are most likely to come from extending the rev range of the engines, then smaller, possibly carbon gearboxes with quicker shift times and paddles, Then following all that, aero might become more developed. However, that will depend entirely on how much of the technology is directly transferrable. In the case of Aero, this is why I think it will be a while before it becomes a big thing - at the moment, CFD & wind tunnel time is horribly expensive - and it wouldn't neccesarily follow that what works on an F1 car can just be bolted onto a hillclimb car and give a better effect. Therefore, stuff that can be bought, more or less off the shelf is more likely to be deployed first.

I also wonder with the F1 tyre war going on, how long will it take for the newer tyre compounds and constructions to filter down and what effect they will have?

[DaveK]

This also explains why the bike engined cars go so well against traditional car engines

[pilbeam buddy]

http://www.teammooseracing.com
moose site updated