Can McLaren beat Williams?

[esorniloc]

In the last 3 races Williams have scored the grand total of 1 point and have had 3 DSQ's, 2 cars crash together and then there is Ralf in the USA.

McLaren have scored a few more points in the last couple of races and are just 19 behind Williams. McLaren have a NEW car which potentially could be close to the best in F1.

So can McLaren beat Williams to 4th spot in the constructors championship and so Williams will need 3 drivers for next year (2 regular plus Friday tester?).

[f1manoz]

Williams will remain 4th. New car or not, McLaren will continue to struggle.

[Led ZeppF1]

Errr, it is to early, isn't? We dont know how fast and reliable the MP4-196 yet.

And, why just Williams as a target? Mathematically, McLaren still have chance to beat Renault and BAR if the car 'be close to the best in F1."

[climb]

The macs got some points recently, but they basically did it only thanks to FW's DNFs, thereof two at Canada ofr disqualification, where FW had blown macs away.
Silvers' revenge still far to come IMO

[Kicking-back]

It's possible McLaren will finish ahead, if the new car is very good.

[R]

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1
Errr, it is to early, isn't? We dont know how fast and reliable the MP4-196 yet.

That's why it's a poll with two options. Because we don't know.

I voted for Williams, btw. I don't think Macs will have a good 2nd part of the season either.

[Super Tourer]

The relative leap will be interesting. Williams have tended to have a stronger 2nd half of the season than the 1st, and they have their new developments and upgrades to fit onto their cars.

McLaren have to make a fair step up to be on Williams current race pace, so in order to beat them they have to effectively move up 2 steps in one go. The car looks to be much better than the 19, but testing can be deceptive.

They could do it and it would be a huge turnaround, but if anyone can achieve it McLaren can.

As a side issue I wonder if this years experience will knock 'radical' cars on the head for the time being, and we see more of a logical evolution of cars from McLaren and Williams in 2005, as it's fair to say the radical gamble hasn't really paid off sufficently.

[N I Tram]

As ST says, Williams can probably make a significant improvement as the season goes on. They've had a run of bad luck, which hasn't been down to poor ahrdware orpoor driving,a dn that can't last. Teething problems are likely for the new Mac as well.

[Kicking-back]

New McLaren is running reliably in testing.

[x_dt]

The gap between the two is 19 points - if (if ) the 19B is competitive/reliable enough to get the results one would normally expect of McLaren then they can overtake Williams.

[Kicking-back]

Kimi did 123 laps today at Jerez - reliable despite the track and air temperatures being scorchingly hot.

[grumpy1]

Given that at this time of year most teams are modifiying what theve got I doubt the Mac will jump over Williams.Current form on B model cars suggests that they are fast in testing but when it comes to the race they are just not that fast.(I use the Jaguar R5B as a yardstick here).:confused: :confused:
Webber smashed the lap record at Silverstone but when the cars got to the Canada and the US they appeared no better.
McLaren will be better but I doubt they can jump Williams.
There is the 3rd car on Friday equation to take into account.If you use BAR as a test bed you have to agree that,in this instance,has worked a treat.It will come down to who can swollow there pride long enough to want that bonus if you care to call it that.

The Grumpy1

[Kicking-back]

McLaren doing 123 reliable laps in testing and going quickly means a lot more than Jaguar being able to squeeze out one flyer in a test.

[alesi95]

no. Next year yes.

[300kph]

I bet for Mc...

[Snrub]

Williams actually have a reasonable car and it appears to be about at a BAR level of performance (slightly worse). They've just had successive problems, not just the technical problems, that have kept them from looking worse than they truely are.

[Logrence]

I'm going for McLaren - you've got one driver at McLaren who is young and motivated for points, and another who is driving to impress next year's boss.

At Williams you have two drivers who are signed sealed and delivered elsewhere (if you believe the rumours) - how motivated are they to win when they're mentally at another team?

[dcp2685]

But BMW already has 3 drivers for next year Webber/JV/Pizzonia.

[oziengineer]

I doubt very much that JV will drive next year. THe DSQ at indy for montoya was a bit wrong, although the brake duct issue is a bit of an embarassment. Really, i think williams are going well for a team that have never done a twin keel car before and are learning more as they go. Really, i would have waited a year to do a twin keel, but the truth is that they are still doing much better than mclaren, who's car is just shocking.

[Snrub]

Originally posted by Logrence
At Williams you have two drivers who are signed sealed and delivered elsewhere (if you believe the rumours) - how motivated are they to win when they're mentally at another team?

I think it's been pretty clear that JPM has been pretty motivated to succeed. eg. He didn't have to pass at Monaco, he didn't have to charge on MS in Canada. Ralf is doing his usual with bizzar ups and downs. The last couple of races he's certainly been back on it.

How many wins does a top level F1 driver get in their career? For most it's not many, I think they all know that it can be over very quickly for them so most of them try very hard regardless of team circumstances.

[jj2728]

uhm, er, truthfully?....i could care less which one of the 2 comes out higher..they are both lacklustre this year and in the case of mclaren that is being kind.....

[Tamás]

McLaren has a good chance to be second at the end of the year but only in that case if both drivers finish the races.Because it has already happened to Renault and BAR drivers several times that one or two of them couldn't finish race. But if McLaren's aim is to be on the top, they'll need a reliable engine and a good radiator(!!!), which should be found in the new vehicle. It would be quite easy to be better than Williams, but the gap between the silvers and Renaults or BARs is much bigger.

[BootsOntheSide]

Second seems extremely optimistic, because the gap is pretty big,a dn teh tmes hte McLaren set in testing appeared promising rather than stunning. They'll need to beat everyone else (maybe even Michael) pretty regualrly to claw back enough points to come 2nd, and it's a tall order. 4th is possible, but I think Williams have a potential edge, and will still be able to improve further.

[Tweed]

Williams are improving, not at the same rate as last year, Montoya's race pace on a heavy fuel load was impressive at Indy, and it's always difficult bringing a virtually new car out mid-season, even if it is faster. There's not enough of the season left for McLaren.

[Kicking-back]

We're only half way.

A lot can happen.