Slick tyres to return in 2004!? (merged)

[slicktoast]

Just read at DailyF1 that the big kahooneez are think of bringing back SLICKS !!! Yahoo!

[ASCII Man]

OMG, i can't wait to see what the other changes could be!
We might get an early christmas this year!

[Bononi]

tsk, tsk... don't believe till I see it.

[Sodemo]

Over at dailyf1 they say that Max and Bernie are putting moves over the F1 think tank to return to slicks in 2004, as well as a reduction in aero.

http://www.dailyf1.com/en/news/news.php?id=2696

[Mr V]

please let it be true.

[JonesF1]

They have no choice, every team was practically in a class of its own this year. With increased mechanical grip and reduced aero grip designing a superb chassis is more of a big bonus rather then a necessity. This will lead to an "evening out" between many of the teams, not just better racing.

A perfect example of how the "Aero Rules" have failed would be BAR and Jordan this year. BAR had the same engine, same tires, and better drivers but in the end they lost out to Jordan in both performance and points. Just because their chassis was slightly worse.

[Lee Janotta]

They've got to increase the track as well, to move the tires beyond the width of the front wing.

[neilap]

How much of a difference will the slick tires make? Bridgestone will now make slicks for Ferrari and everyone else will have to deal with it. Michelin will share the wealth between two teams till Toyota begins to buy them off "Ferrari style". I think the slow teams will still be slow and Ferrari will still dominate. If the slicks are spec. then I will be happy otherwise I don't see the benefits.

Tires are the most important part of the car. Regardless of how well the chassis is designed if the tires arnt ideal the combination will not be ideal. Ferraris chassis may have been good but the tires made the difference.

[Valve Bounce]

This is a complete about face, and I find it difficult to believe. Max had gone right out on a limb to extoll his engineering prowess to impress the press (like that? ) that by bringing in grooved tyres, he would slow the cars down, and decrease cornering speeds and thus improve safety. This was because, he hypothesised that a car going round a corner 10 kph faster would be twice as dangerous in an accident.
It's funny that when these guys rush in to impose a new rule arbitrarily, they have to convince the press with some cock and bull story but in doing so, they paint themselves into a corner that they will find it difficult to get out of.

[golem]

I just pray they get more rubber companies involved. Dunlop and Goodyear are two names that should return, if not Pirelli.

[f1manoz]

I agree with Bon on this one. I'll wait until I see it. Preferably, I would like to see more tyre manufacturers...

[Redlake27]

Goodyear own Dunlop, so I doubt that both would return, but a major reason for Goodyear's withdrawal in 1998 was the move away from slicks. If slicks come back, can see Goodyear linking up with McLaren, Jordan and BAR.....for 2004.

[Sodemo]

If they did increase the track-width as well as introduce slicks, then surely we will have cars approching the (dangerous?) speeds of 97?

[ParkLife]

Not if they drastically reduce Aerodynamics. And I think you'll find that we are already far past the speeds of 97!

[neilap]

Ok now I see where you guys are headed with the slicks. The racing would be closer because mechanical grip would be more important if they reduce the aero package. However, this further plays into the hands of Ferrari! Now teams with a good aero package will lose out while Ferrari still have the best suited tires for their car. I say bring a spec tire. It does not matter if they are slick or grooved.

[Sodemo]

But if they cut back aerodynamics, straight line speeds will skyrocket.

[Lee Janotta]

Yup, and that increase in straightline speed alone will increase braking distances. It's a win-win scenario!

And yes, they'll need either a spec tire, or 5 different manufacturers.

Goodyear's clearly shown they're still interested in making excellent road racing slicks, as they just did a brand new set for the MG/Lola sports car at Dyson's behest.

Possibly Pirelli and Yokohama could also be enticed to join in.

[Speed]

Turbo ?

[ParkLife]

Originally posted by The Monster
But if they cut back aerodynamics, straight line speeds will skyrocket.

No. You cannot make a statement like 'cut back aerodynamics'. You can cut back aerodynamic GRIP, but you can't user the term in that way.

And it is not such a simple thing as people make it out to be. Aerodynamics is a hugely complicated field in which we still do not have the equations to fully describe. Navier Stokes and other equations will provide approximations and this is what all CFD software is based on (that's a terribly over simplified statement I know).

The key words in the aerodynamic discusion are GRIP and EFFICIENCY. Grip (or downforce to be precise) is self explanatory, and efficiency can be thought of as drag. Basically the solution that many of us have been asking for for years is a major reduction in aerodynamic downforce and a reduction in aerodynamic efficiency. One obvious way of doing this would be to give the cars flat undertrays and remove the diffuser. This will drastically reduce the downforce produced and adversely affect the efficiency too. The wings will stay intact and these are the main source of drag (chiefly the rear wing). Another method would be to regulate the angle of attack of the aerofoils. If there was a limit on this again, less downforce, more drag.

One thing many people don’t consider is the amount of time that the teams spend in their wind tunnels working out how to screw up the air flow for the car running behind them! This phenomenon that we see where a car following another closely suddenly looses downforce is actually engineered into the cars aero package.

Just remember that these things are rarely as simple as they are made out to be.

[Speed]

Originally posted by ParkLife
One thing many people don’t consider is the amount of time that the teams spend in their wind tunnels working out how to screw up the air flow for the car running behind them! This phenomenon that we see where a car following another closely suddenly looses downforce is actually engineered into the cars aero package.

Williams did a great job in 2001 then...

But this affected them aswell. Remember JPM-JVers. (Interlagos), RS-JV (Melbourne)

[SALEEN S7R]

Unless there is a spec tyre for every team this wont work, I would suggest however not to go the way of F3000 and make it such a way that there is only one tyre manufacturer.

[paulzinho]

No spec tyres, ban refuelling, that might help, then we may see teams doing different things with their tyre strategies, wouldn't it be great to see a run to the flag with the guy on new rubber hounding down the guy on old rubber over the last few laps!? It won't be artificial either!

Also make the slicks wider, powerslides galore!

[neilap]

Actually I would think that the grooved tires would cause more power-sliding than slicks. Slicks will usually have huge amounts of grip then let go suddenly, right?
We need to keep the aero packages and their development. The only hope anyone on Bridgestones have of beating Ferrari is their aero-package. If we take the aerodynamic efficiency of the cars away then look for Ferrari to dominate until Bridgestone leaves the sport!

[Sodemo]

No, you could easliy cut back aero downforce by just making the rear wing a mandentory surface area, and say it has to be one single peice of bodywork.

[Lee Janotta]

No Neil, it's the other way around with the slicks vs. grooves.

What's good are the _controlled_ powerslides that you can do with the slicks.

And widening the chassis does has just as much to do with that... Placing the wheels farther away from the centerline of the car distributes the load more evenly between the tires.