marshaling for kartracing

[stevie.murray]

does anybody think being a marshal at karting is anything less than amature.I'm very passionate about my role in motorsport I would like to do more but can't get time to travel anywhere else and in scotland knockhill is the only racing venue up from karts maybe someone know's more..Ilove my afiliation with kartracing I'm happy for now..

[EvilPumpkin]

Sorry Stevie, what do you mean amateur? Kart marshalling is just as demanding as for any other form of motorsport - it may be slightly less risky (and I say MAY be) but other than that it takes the same amount of skill and expertise as any other form of marshalling.

However, if you've never marshalled anything else, I would definitely recommend you try it out. The Scottish Marshals club should be able to help you out with that if you want to go to Knockhill.

[stevie.murray]

What I was getting at is I know a few marshals who go to knockhill,oultonpark and some other venues who said we were only kidding ourself's that we were marshals and what marshalling really entail's and I wanted to know if this was the general feeling of marshals in the world of car racing.You've answered my question ....pumpkin thank you it's nice to know most of you guy's at the top end of motorracing look on us little one's the same.

[Asp]

Could you plesae post some info on Kart marshalling - I'm seriously considering it (Three Sisters is close to where I live), but of course there's not as much info as other types of marshalling.

[Muppetrescue]

As a rescue team leader covering cars , karts , bikes , rallycross, rallies and rallysprints I can assure you that dealing with Kart accidents requires all the skills of car marshalling. True they are more considerate in that they don't throw tons of metal at you but here in Ireland they

Roll, get ejected and knock themselves unconscious.
Roll , cover themselves in fuel.
Roll, get trapped in the kart and knock themselves unconscious.
Spin in great numbers.

They are like 4 wheel bike accidents and the racing generally is way better than cars. It has been my experience that our Incident officers who cover bikes and karts as well as cars work far better at serious incidents than those who cover cars only. But that's just my opinion.

Muppet Rescue

Slightly fatter than previously, dumb and happy

[EvilPumpkin]

Stevie, I'm sorry that a few careless people made you feel like you had nothing to offer other forms of marshalling. Being a in a charitable mood, I might suggest that they were simply teasing - a lot of that kind of teasing goes on here too, between car marshals/bike marshals/kart marshals and those of us that walk the line between the 3 - and we all gang up on the rally marshals!

But it is just in fun and not meant to offend or make anyone feel less valued.

The contact I have for the Scottish Marshals Club is Richard Davenport and if you would like to email me directly, I'll be happy to pass your details on to him.

If you take a look at the thread just below this on recruitment, I'm sure you'll find that your experience and attendance are definitely wanted!

Oh and MuppetRescue - what do you expect if you overdose on donuts - time for MrsMuppetRescue to return from the country and start overseeing your diet again methinks - back to the vegetarian spring rolls!

[KayBee]

Stevie, I agree with EPW they were probably just teasing - I do both cars and bikes so like EPW I joss the Rally marshals, they joss me about the bikes.

There has been some carts at Oulton and marshals have come down from Scotland to assist.

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally posted by Asp
Could you plesae post some info on Kart marshalling - I'm seriously considering it (Three Sisters is close to where I live), but of course there's not as much info as other types of marshalling.

Try this website - http://www.karting.co.uk/KandK/

[stevie.murray]

Hi Asp It's fairly easy to start marshalling at kart level even more so If you've had some experience at other levels.The training is very intensive just like bikes and cars though most is done during meetings.The difference marshalling karts is your flag,fire,and incident marshall all rolled into one which inable's you to have complete control your peticular part of the circuit.It's probabily done this way because on main land Britain purpose built kart tracks are 1500m maximum so you'll find that your in viual contact with marshals at other posts.Is very fast,exciting,close racing(supposedly non contact)some times you need eyes in the back of your head.And when the gearbox classes are on the track WOW!!!.Iwould suggest you go along to Three sisters and introduce yourself and you'll find warm friendly people with enthusiasm for your intrest to marshal.Your wellcome to come and see us at West of Scotland when ever your up this way.Here's a little bit of info,that we're proud of this year two of our LIFE long members drive in F1 David Coulthard and Alan McNish thier also former ex.scottish kart champions.Alan managed to mention Larkhall(wskc)just before his debut in Australia which was very nice..I hope you find your way into our sport and I've been a wee bit instrimental in your decision.

[Stephen Green]

Stephen,

I am not sure of the status regarding official training days regarding karting, but if you ever get the opportunity, try and get to one of the major training days organised by the RACMSA and/or the BMMC (British Motorsport Marshals Club). I find they are worthwhile days and give heaps of good advice.

As for being amateur, nothing could be further from the truth in my opinion. We are ALL volunteers whether we do bikes, karts, cars, Formula 1 or any other form of motorsport. It has been my experience that marshals from all disciplines are an extremely friendly bunch when they congregate, and long may that remain the case. Of course, there will always be the friendly rivalry between formulae and clubs, but hey, that's life!

You stick at it and don't let anyone tell you that you are anything other than professional!

[EvilPumpkin]

Originally posted by stevie.murray
Hi Asp It's fairly easy to start marshalling at kart level even more so If you've had some experience at other levels.

I'm a bit concerned about this thing about "levels" - you indicated it in one of your earlier posts.

I don't see different classes of racing as being different levels of marshalling. Car marshals aren't in some way superior to Kart marshals. Or Bike marshals. Or whatever. They're simply different disciplines. As you've said, you need to multi task for Kart marshalling which you don't necessarily (although let's be honest with the numbers these days, most of us do) have to do with Cars/Bikes. You are probably less likely to have a fire with a Kart and less likely to be run over by one.

But these are simply skillsets which can be learned - they don't make one set of marshals inferior to another.

I've never marshalled at F1 but from the stories I've heard, it's probably the place where your marshalling skills are least likely to be employed, due to a combination of lack of incidents and remote marshalling - so don't confuse the popularity/level of the driving class with the level of marshalling skill!

Alan McNish is a sweetie - he visited our stand at the Motorshow last year.

[KayBee]

>>They are like 4 wheel bike accidents and the racing generally is way better than cars. It has been my experience that our Incident officers who cover bikes and karts as well as cars work far better at serious incidents than those who cover cars only. But that's just my opinion.<<

I agree with MuppetRescue's statement apart from the fact that it is all marshals not just Incident Officers who work better - I find most marshals do, even if the bike unexpectedly explodes on them.

This year my intended Duty is Flagging - something I would not have thought of doing if I had not had bike experience.

Enjoy your carting and come and see us at Oulton.

[Stephen Green]

KayBee, I'm interested to know why you wouldn't have thought of flagging had you not marshalled Bike meetings?

[stevie.murray]

EP Disciplines is what I was meaning,(Levels was easier to type not me very articulate"lol")I understand marshalling at any discipline is all the same although there must be slight differences in how marshals work together on different circuits by this I mean "say" Silverstone 2.??mls long as to Larkhall 900mtrs long Iwould imagine the transision from karts to "for a better decription"professional racing,would be harder for me than for say a BTCC marshal to go to karts.maybe it's just me though I don't know.but I'm going to have a go at it.

[Stephen Green]

Stevie,

It really doesn't matter whether the track is 2 miles long or 900 metres in terms of marshalling. At the long tracks marshals posts have to be within sight of each other, that is so that flag marshals can see the preceeding and following posts for their flag signals. The major difference of course is that the cars/karts take a hell of a lot longer to come round again. That does have benefits I have to admit. For example, if you have a multiple pile up on a long circuit, it gives the marshals that much longer to clear the track before the pack re-appear.

Basically, marshalling is much the same whether it be for karts or cars. Of course there are subtle differences in what you can and cannot do with either speciality, but fundamentally we act in the same way.

I hope that helps a little? If you join the British Motorsport Marshals Club, they have a special grading scheme for kart marshals, you may find that interetsing to look at. The website is www.marshals.co.uk

Take care,

Stephen.

[KayBee]

>>KayBee, I'm interested to know why you wouldn't have thought of flagging had you not marshalled Bike meetings?<<

Stephen can I e-mail you with the reason?

[Stephen Green]

Sure:

stephen3451@hotmail.com

[DarrellB]

Marshalling at cars, bikes, carts, trucks in fact anything with an engine and wheels, the basics of marshalling are always the same your there to deal with an incident in a safe and efficient manner but there are obviously differences between how you go about this because of the different nature of the incidentsthat occur with the different disciplines.

With short circuit karting you tend to be much more involved as you may be flag, observer and incident rolled into one therefore it is an excellent way to learn and these skills can be easily transfered to longer circuits where people tend to concentrate on one job at a time. (unless at Donington).

Bikes gives you a good grounding in casualty handling wheras trucks tend to leave a big mess to clear up and cars will give some of both.

[delarmando]

Hello, i'm from Estoril(Portugal), and a track marshall since 1984, marshalling in almost every categories.Experience tels me that we must have some extra care in go kart races.I think that there are two big problemsne is the absence of rails, and the other one is
the easiness that gokarts lift off when they race wheels to whells.So "be carfull ou there"
Take care
Delarmando

[stevie.murray]

Hi delarmando sound's like kart circuit's in Portugal,are some what lacking in safety measures.All circuit's on main land Britain have safety barriers surronding them with tyre walls at corners,straights,chicanes. so if there is a accident these prevent the karts etc..from stopping on other parts of the circuit which in turn would become more serious.spectators are also protected by the outer barriers.however things can turn nasty in motorsport but on the whole barriers and tyre walls usually get hit first rather than spectators or officals,with more than not minimal damage to driver and machine.Keep doing what you do and enjoy ..

[delarmando]

Yes, that is a fact.With spectaters we don´have problems, because they are placed in protected areas, regarding track marshals, well that´s a diferent story.I think that there must be some kind of balance between our safe and drivers safe.Drivers often complain when there are too many barriers.At a certain point i understand them.I witnessed some kart acidents where pilots got really bad after hiting safety barriers.

[stevie.murray]

quite right delarmando balanced safety is paramount.I've seen streets that have been turned into race circuits,with concrete and Iron barriers purposely put in place,and I've seen karts racing these circuits.when you see cars hit these barriers !!BANG!!!WHAT A MESS!!,if a kart hits one JEEZ!!we're looking at a serious accident.I pesonnally would'nt marshal these circuits. street racing to my mind is VERY!dangerous.I've just had a thought I can't remember the last year there was'nt a fatality at I.O.M.TT bike races TRAGIC Keep safe delarmando

[Crash Test]

I've spent more time marshalling at Kart races than Car races, and they are just as much fun. The only downside I've found is that you are more likely to get smacked in the back of the head with rocks at the karts (could be because the marshalling posts are closer to the track, and could also be because one of the local circuits is gravel based ) and to the odd kart has been known to get airbourne and impale the marshals post... that's not too much of a problem saftety wise, more of a fill your pants problem!

[Warwick]

Having just spent 5-6 hours marshalling at a national kart event I would be less than tolerant were someone to tell me it wasn't professional,we were lucky enough to have spares and swapped flag points or took breaks every hour or so,as in all marshalling no matter what for it is quite hard to concentrate for that long.

[stevie.murray]

Your not wrong there Crash Test I was hit on the back once with a 13mm spanner.the mechanic left it on the kart after some repairs and it decided to part company with the kart at MY!post..It was cold and wet that day and I spent a nice 20mins in a warm ambulance I was eventualy taken out,KICKING!!and SCREAMING!!!NNNNNOOOOOO!!!!ITS CCCOOOLLLDDD!!!OUT THERE!!!!NNNOOOOO!!be safe..