Performance of new the cars..........

[Thundersports]

Anyone know how the new generation of cars will compare performance wise with the old Lolas?

[outflat]

Given that the Lola was originally designed to compete against Reynard, while the new car is a one-make, I'd think it would be a little bit slower

[Dudley]

I was under the impression it was supposed to be quicker.

[NoGuts-NoGlory]

Originally Posted by outflat

Given that the Lola was originally designed to compete against Reynard, while the new car is a one-make, I'd think it would be a little bit slower

The car is quicker for a number of reasons. Remember, in the DP01 first official test at sebring it was already up to the Lola speed. this was a new car that had never been pushed and had minor tech issues that needed to be sorted out. But was quick right out of the box!! There were many who thought it would be 2 seconds slower than the Lola at first, this didn't happen.

The teams were starting from scratch with no data to rely on to maximize setups. Team engineers are still learning about the car as we speak and have had a chance to analyse the data from the sebring test and will have made adjustments for the Houston test next week. The car will be even faster at Houston.


The addition of paddle shifters from sequential gears shifters will make the cars slightly more efficient and thus faster.

Also, there is an upgraded Cosworth XFE Turbo engine redesign this year that that is suppose to be smoother and will put the power down more efficiently.

I would expect track records to be broken at many venues this year and think that by the time Cc has their final test a Laguna Seca they will be faster than the Lola. Look for lap records at Laguna.

[Snrub]

Originally I believe they designed it to be couple to a few seconds a lap faster.

I thought they were going to lower the base HP of the Cosworth to 725hp before push to pass and 800hp with push to pass? (in the past they did a 750/800, but changed it on some courses) I suspect this season we're looking at 1-2 seconds of difference because the rules will limit the teams' ability to setup the car.

Everything has been changed on the car. For instance on a low-speed and bumpy street course the suspension could be about the same, a little better or a lot better. On these types of courses the aero and downforce component is less critical. Or at Road America (fast and higher speed corners) the car might be more efficient in producing downforce resulting in a car that is faster through the corners. I guess for the rules this year the series will be mandating wing angles. If they pick a steep angle at Road America it might limit top speed resulting in a slower lap time than in the past, but only until the teams are allowed to fully setup the car.

I think for Laguna Seca they should set out to take the lap record back from the Toyota F1 car with Zonta driving. They had a 1'06.309. Helio was about a second slower in 2000 when they had more power and stickier tires. Bourdais did a 1:09.358 qualifying lap in 2004. If they brought the revs back up to 16k with a sticky bridgestone and messed with all aspects of the setup they should be able to take the record back.

[NoGuts-NoGlory]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Originally I believe they designed it to be couple to a few seconds a lap faster.

I thought they were going to lower the base HP of the Cosworth to 725hp before push to pass and 800hp with push to pass? (in the past they did a 750/800, but changed it on some courses) I suspect this season we're looking at 1-2 seconds of difference because the rules will limit the teams' ability to setup the car.

Everything has been changed on the car. For instance on a low-speed and bumpy street course the suspension could be about the same, a little better or a lot better. On these types of courses the aero and downforce component is less critical. Or at Road America (fast and higher speed corners) the car might be more efficient in producing downforce resulting in a car that is faster through the corners. I guess for the rules this year the series will be mandating wing angles. If they pick a steep angle at Road America it might limit top speed resulting in a slower lap time than in the past, but only until the teams are allowed to fully setup the car.

Yes, and I also heard the brakes are suppose to be better than last years also. Which should help make the cars quicker.

Something tells me that there will be elements in CC and at panoz that will want the car to post quicker times than the lola in order to make a statement. So I would presume they will allow some tinkering by the engineers to this end.

[kmchow]

The prev '07 champcars all dated back to pre'00 at the latest while the Panoz cars are all new. I expect they should be faster even if they're using the same engines?

[Davhut]

I can't wait for Las Vegas and the standing starts with the Cosworth's all going bonky up on boost, and Paul Tracy's first corner banzai crash.
Photos to be posted soon!

[Kieran20]

would be embaressing for panoz to bring a new car, thats slower than those old lolas. still i loved the lolas, they had such an original shape which has now been lost. loved the reynards especially, but we have to move on.

if the cars are not faster than the lolas i wil be worried.

[Speedblood]

It will certainly be interesting to see how the new cars compare to when they come to Europe as both races are being supported by EuroBOSS so there may be some competition for faster lap times!
I reckon the new car will generally be faster than most EuroBOSS cars but it may be close between them and say the top EuroBOSS cars like Benetton B197's etc.
Last time they were in Europe Champ Car set a new lap record (Adrian Fernandez I believe it was) at Brands Hatch and EuroBOSS failed to beat the lap time two weeks later but the following year they did beat it.
Mind you if they set a lap record with the old lola chassis then goodness knows how much quicker they may go with the new car.

[pirenzo]

Originally Posted by Kieran20

would be embaressing for panoz to bring a new car, thats slower than those old lolas. still i loved the lolas, they had such an original shape which has now been lost. loved the reynards especially, but we have to move on.

if the cars are not faster than the lolas i wil be worried.

It doesn't really matter if the Panoz is faster or slower does it? Obviously Panoz would have been aiming for about the same ballpark as the Lolas, but I'm sure the focus would have been on bringing some technology on the cars up to date and generally bringing a fresh and more modern image to the cars.

A second or two slower or faster doesn't really matter too much, everyone has the same car, there's nothing to be gained relatively. Race wins and championships won't be diminished in importance just because the cars are a bit slower than the year before.

And FWIW they shouldn't really have trouble beating EuroBOSS. Paul Tracy's pole position lap at Brands in 2003 was 37.0s, a whole second faster than the EuroBOSS record. The EuroBOSS record (set in qualifying IIRC) was a few tenths faster than the Champ Car race record though.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by pirenzo

And FWIW they shouldn't really have trouble beating EuroBOSS. Paul Tracy's pole position lap at Brands in 2003 was 37.0s, a whole second faster than the EuroBOSS record. The EuroBOSS record (set in qualifying IIRC) was a few tenths faster than the Champ Car race record though.

Things might be a little closer thank you might think, Im a personal friend of one of the drivers in EuroBOSS and that person has informed me that the overall level of the cars is somewhat better than it has been in previous years, especially now there is a 1997 Jordan on the grid, as well as what I beleive is a 2000 or 2001 arrows. The Judd V10 in the back of the Jordan is pushing out around 650bhp. Yes the EuroBOSS cars might be a little down on power compared to the Champcars but I would think the areodynamics are better on the EuroBOSS machines.

By the way has the engine power (without boost) in the Cosworth been decreased for certain to 725bhp, or is this just speculation at the moment?

[astinus4]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Things might be a little closer thank you might think, Im a personal friend of one of the drivers in EuroBOSS and that person has informed me that the overall level of the cars is somewhat better than it has been in previous years, especially now there is a 1997 Jordan on the grid, as well as what I beleive is a 2000 or 2001 arrows. The Judd V10 in the back of the Jordan is pushing out around 650bhp. Yes the EuroBOSS cars might be a little down on power compared to the Champcars but I would think the areodynamics are better on the EuroBOSS machines.

By the way has the engine power (without boost) in the Cosworth been decreased for certain to 725bhp, or is this just speculation at the moment?

No mention of any horsepower changes in these articles:

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...e.asp?ID=11248

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...e.asp?ID=11278

As for the aerodynamics, the drivers have commented that the DP01 is faster than the Lola through high speed corners.

[SALEEN S7R]

Originally Posted by astinus4

As for the aerodynamics, the drivers have commented that the DP01 is faster than the Lola through high speed corners.

Yeah I guessed the areodynamics were better than the previous Champcar already, you can tell that just by looking at the car. What im interested in though is whether or not the Champcars will be faster than the EuroBOSS cars? Sure Champcar has a new chassis, but EuroBOSS has some newer machinery this year too, ex F1 cars or not they are still F1 machines which produce massive ammounts of downforce.

[Kieran20]

Originally Posted by pirenzo

It doesn't really matter if the Panoz is faster or slower does it? Obviously Panoz would have been aiming for about the same ballpark as the Lolas, but I'm sure the focus would have been on bringing some technology on the cars up to date and generally bringing a fresh and more modern image to the cars.

A second or two slower or faster doesn't really matter too much, everyone has the same car, there's nothing to be gained relatively. Race wins and championships won't be diminished in importance just because the cars are a bit slower than the year before.

And FWIW they shouldn't really have trouble beating EuroBOSS. Paul Tracy's pole position lap at Brands in 2003 was 37.0s, a whole second faster than the EuroBOSS record. The EuroBOSS record (set in qualifying IIRC) was a few tenths faster than the Champ Car race record though.

thats true, but i cant see why panoz would hold back, the car should be faster, and for a new car that has had so much hype by champ car fans, it should be faster other wise its not really anything special, just looks different and has an easier to use gearbox!

[SALEEN S7R]

The word "budget" springs to mind when I think of the new Panoz. Still, I guess if thats what the organisers want then thats all well and good. Personally though I was hoping for something a bit more advanced, that said it still looks pretty nice.

[Kieran20]

to follow on from my last post, what is the point if panoz bring a new car to the series, thats is no better or no faster? its pointless. the whole idea for a new car, is to move forward in development and to go faster and make the series more attractive to be in for teams, and also to watch from the fans. if the newe panoz was the same speed as the lola, pretty much felt the same, and the only difference is the gearbox, i really dont get the point of it being their. all it would be is a big waste of money.

[astinus4]

Originally Posted by Kieran20

to follow on from my last post, what is the point if panoz bring a new car to the series, thats is no better or no faster? its pointless. the whole idea for a new car, is to move forward in development and to go faster and make the series more attractive to be in for teams, and also to watch from the fans. if the newe panoz was the same speed as the lola, pretty much felt the same, and the only difference is the gearbox, i really dont get the point of it being their. all it would be is a big waste of money.

I don't know about pointless Keiran - a couple of the stated objectives of the new car were to reduce running costs in the long term, plus promote better overtaking by reducing reliance on the wings to create downforce. Obviously though it remains to be seen if either of these benefits will actually eventuate.

I agree it would be easier to get more excited about the DP01 if it had been significantly faster than the Lola at the Sebring test. Nevertheless I'm optimistic that it will prove to be a faster car once the teams get their heads around how to set it up properly, as it was pretty much the same speed as the Lola 'straight out of the box'.

Besides, purely from an aesthetic point of view a new car had to be commissioned IMO as the Lola was just far too long in the tooth. I know you will disagree Kieran, but personally I find the DP01 a significant improvement in terms of appearance and engine noise.

[Snrub]

I would be really surprised if the new car doesn't facilitate better racing. It's not like in other series were things were tweeked to improve the chances, the Panoz was designed from the ground up with that as the key goal in tandom with cost reduction.

I don't think real racers really care about the appearance and if they're a couple seconds faster than the past car. It might be nice, but ultimately racing is racing.

[norman-normal]

One of the main points of the DP01: it is smaller eg: 3" with reduction, so as to accommodate passing, particularly on street courses