F/Atlantic T460 info required

[Colin Haste]

Hi All
Colin Haste "Col" Bryan Miller recomended this site to me in my quest for infomation. The background to my request is this. In 2000 I purchsed a Lola T560 HU1(The only 560 the rest are udated 460s) unfortunatly I had a high speed shunt at Sandown (aust)last Nov which left the car prety much trashed.To fill in while I rebuilt the 560 I purchsed a T360 Known localy as AU1,The car was brought into Aust By Glen Abby and Don Baker in 1974 They were introduced to Eric Broadly by Frank Gardner who worked for Eric at the time "That may fill in a hole for Bryan and Chris T" enough of that. Its hard to find someone to build tubs in a short time and being impatient I put a note on racecars.com for a T460 tub,without going into to much detail the tubs are the same except for a couple of pick up points.I was sucsessful and brought a good Tub and what was to be some bits, as it turned out I got a rolling chassis less engine and gear box plus the orinal log book and chassis plate.
What I have is Lola T460 HU5 another car that needs restoring.So now I have the full set and two cars to build.
I'm trying trace the history of this car the original owner was Jerry Hansen,Jerry was also the original owner of my T560 a real coincidence.the next two owners names are in the log book but it is hard to read the writing it looks like a T J Mahonys? then a Steve ????MD there is the name Steve Jizmagian one the body of the car and the car was purchased from a Paul Schafer in California in 1997 by the guy I brought it off but he has lost this pauls contact number.I have tried to find Jerry Hansen but it appears as though he disapearsed after his sponsers went to jail for fraud.Jerry Hansen was as it seeems a fairly good peddler but not world class he did well in the SCCA runoffs and he is mentioned there in the Lola T460 in 1976 ,he raced sports cars fairly succsfully to im told.I would be greatfull for any input. Col

[Dan Rear]

Colin

Sorry no info on your T460, but on the T560, Autocourse in 77 says it was raced by Carl Liebich. Did he drive it for Hansen ?

[Chris Townsend]

Welcome Colin!

Steve Jizmagian was a regular back of the field guy in F.Atlantic - mainly SCCA races. I have him in an RT1 in 1980. I guess that the Hansen car mainly ran SCCA. They don't feature in the pro results at all after 1976/77. Will try and find out about Mr Mahony and 460s in SCCA. Allen might know if there was such a guy in the Can Am, running the car under sports car bodywork.

As Liebich had his own 460 and most 560s [other than Hansen's] were kitted updates, I'd always figured that the 560 he ran 77-79 was his car upgraded.

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris

Did you get my copy programmes ???

Dan

[Neptune]

Chris,

Bryan may have told you I have a set of 10"/14" Gotti modular wheels that came w/ my Modus. The DPO was going to try to upgrage it to FAtl w/ the wheel and engine change, but instead chopped up the body to install a March sports racer body and run the car 3 more times as a CSR in SCCA. Anyway, talks w/ DPO have devulged that the wheels are ex-Jerry Hansen. What is the pin pattern of your 460 and 560 and I may have a set of wheels for you. You can reply off-list to rogsie@telesistech.com.

Also, do you have the Lola soft cover book that covers mainly 70's racing in F5000, FAtl and Can-Am. I have an extra copy or two I could supply. I've had them for at least 5 years so I'm pretty sure they are out-of-print.

Roger

[Colin Haste]

Thanks for the replies. Dan I think Chris is right re Liebich.Chris I found an entry for Jizmagian in 1975 in a march 722 sponsored by Swanson art Galleries San Francisco California.in the log book a Steve somthing looks like Quest MD ran the car from July 78 to June 70 so if he had the car it would have been in that short period unless he is a MD and signs his last name nothing like it looks.I know the car was never a world beeter or its drivers for that matter but we like to get as accurate history of the cars as we canout here for there historic documents.that aside I will list the dates and events in the log book some one may have a program or list of entries from one that will list the 460s there so here it is.
1976

[Colin Haste]

pushed the wrong button I will continue 1976 4th June sprints
9th July Uncola
no date Milwalkee Mueller
no date BVR Nationals
3rd Sept NOW spectator nationals
18th Sept Hossier GP
22nd Oct GSPRRC
Hansen sells to lets try Mobrays?
1977
23rd april taputa S/R?
30th april Salt City Dr sch/reg
1st may hutchinson KS
15th may blackhawk farms reg
30th may LOL reg
2nd june sprints
18th june milwalkee BUR nats
25th june IRP nat
8th july uncola nats
2 sept BIR nats
24th sept BIR regs
sold to steve ??? Md
1978
1 july ponca city
29th july hallet super nats
6 aug MAR regs
19th aug lake a fran?
10th sept MAR super nats
15th oct IRP
1979
21 apirl hallet
4th may MAR
26th may hutch
1st june elkart lake june sprints
17th June Hutch
well there it is a lot of those I dont know much about but they were most likly all scca and in area 18 according to the car stamping
Col

[Dan Rear]

Lawler's Lola T462, I presume this was simply a BDX engoned T460, rather than anything more sophisticated. I think it later went to Ireland, (John Eastwood?)and Alo later used a 'proper' T460, the ex-Trimmer 76 car. He must ahve liked Lolas, 'cos he later got the unique T760 ground effects one, not that it was any good, as I think he went back to the T460 in mid-season, and later got the ex Mallock RT1 for 1980.

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

Lawler's T462 was HU22 the last of the 460 series to be built. When and where did he use the Trimmer T460, which was slightly older? I think both cars ended up in Ireland.

Chris

[Richard Young]

For what it's worth I can only remember one Irish T460, that of John Eastwood which then - I think - passed to Joey Greenan and was then sold in the mid 80's, probably out of the country. Don't remember seeing another one here.....

[Dan Rear]

Chris/Richard

I'm sure Alo brought back the ex-Trimmer/Melchester T460 in around mid 78, after he'd given up with his Surtees and RT1 in Aurora, or perhaps wanted a cheaper option. I guess he got it, perhaps borrowed rather than bought, to do Irish Atlantic as much as anything else.

He was definitely entered in a T460 at the Donington October 78 race. He started too, I think I may even have photos, it was white. He was 3rd on the grid of what turned out to be a mixed Irish Atlantic/Libre race, behind Barton and Viv Candy, ahead of Mather, Bryce Wilson, Greenan, Dickson, and Richard Jones. Very good field indeed. As I recall there was a startline shunt, it was restarted and won by Dickson from Adrian Russell, Alo (first Atlantic) Jones, Gowdy abd John Smith.

Ring any bells ???

Dan

[Colin Haste]

Can I broaden this to a look at all T460s this is what I have gathered whilst searching with help from Bryan.It seems that information of the American scene is had to come by.this is what I have.
HU5 1976 Jerry Hansen then unknown till now
HU 9 seen for sale GP Classics US
HU10 seen for sale race cars .com US
HU11 Driven David Webber Toronto 1976 and Trios Riviere in 1977 in boxes till 1994 and now with Derek Harling Canada
HU12 seen for sale race cars .com US
HU15 ex Ted Wentz 1977 in the hands of Beng Saswanto Stuyvesant series new zealand Graham lawrence second driver
HU17 seen for sale Stucky car sales US
HU20 Auto sport 19/5/77 for sale Tony Trimmer (Melchester racing kent)out right winner John Player series.
There are supposed to be 21 made with Chris noting Lawlers T462 as HU22
In the US IMSA series 1976 we have Hector Rebaque (BDA Traylor)and Tom Klausler ( BDA Nicholson)
In the Canadian Players series 1976 we have Bertil Roos BDA/Hart,Tom Glory BDA/Phillips then Nicholson,Tom Klausler BDA/Traylor,Hector Rebaque BDA/Traylor, Ted Wentz BDA/Cosworth,Tim Conconis BDA/Cosworth,Craig Hill BDA/Hart,Carl Liebich BDA/Hart.
At least two of the above may be the same car given Roos changes to and RT1 mid year and Glory to a Tui/BH2.
On the Europen side we have Lawler in a 460in 1976 and Ted Wentz and Tony Trimmer both in T460s at Brands Hatch on the 6th June 1976.
Looking for as much history as posible Colin

[Bryan Miller]

Col.
Autosport june 8-1978, at Curborough sprints in U.K. David Render has a T460 .
Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Col. re. the above , in july 78 issue , states Render's car is ex-Adrian Russell.

[Dan Rear]

I think the Russell T460 was actually the ex-Mallock T450 F2 car. Used briefly in 76 by Mallock, then dumped for his March 742/75B, which he won at Snetterton G8 in. Russell used the car quite a bit in Libre with an Atlantic engine in 78, then got the ex-South March 782. His cars were always very well prepared, but not very fast...I don't think Russell got the car until '78, he had a converted F3 GRD in 77, so Render couldn't have had it in mid-78, unless he borrowed it from Russell.

Now I think about it, didn't Render also have the ex-works/Marazzi T550 F2 car, that I think Lawler also used, or was entered in once or twice in 78. nb, it seems that no-one else agrees with me on the Lawler T550 matter !!!

How many other T450s were made, I guess some of these may also have been called T460s over time, as the Atlantic car went pretty well, compared to the F2 version.

[Colin Haste]

Dan there were 4 T450s made as I understand it.The change over would have been simple given they are basicly the same car as a 460.

[Chris Townsend]

Lola T450s

1976:
HU1 ATS for Mikka Arpianen
HU2 Mikko Kozarowitzky
HU3 Ardmore Racing: Ray Mallock - pretty well trashed at Mallory early in season and Mallock went back to March 742/75B. Ashley tried to qualify the car at Thruxton F2. Sold July? to Adrian Russell. Used by Russell through 1977 G8 series

T460s adding to what Colin has given us, all of which I agree on.

HU4 Tom Gloy
HU7 1979 Bill Woodruff [Canada] don't know before or after
HU15 1979 probably the "lo" part of the "Marlo" raced by Saswanto
HU17 Tim Coconis 1976-79; John Keller 1980-85

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris/Richard

Re T460 HU20, the Trimmer Melchester '76 car. I'm pretty sure it did go to Ireland, as well as the T462 HU22 Lawler car. Can't recall who had it, Eastwood definitely rings a bell for one of them. I'm certain Alo brought it back here for a while, see my note on the Donington race above. Whether he owned it, or borrowed it I don't know.

Does that leave 1 T450 unaccounted for Chris ? Is it the Roland Binder car, from later 76 then 77, or is this one of the ex-ATS cars ? I'd always assumed it was, purely on geographical grounds. Was the missing one the prototype perhaps...

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

Apologies, missed HU4 off the T450s. This was the Roland Binder car.

How does Kinnane sound for the owner of the ex Trimmer car?

Chris

[Dan Rear]

Chris,

May well have been Kinnane (Richard ???), did he drive too, or just own and enter it. This is purely from memory 25 years on plus, I have no records at all on Irish Atlantic. So I s'pose he must bought this new.

Still on Lolas, was the Bailey/May/Robinson/Morrison/Bowditch T360 the one that Col has in Oz ? If so, where did the Wentz/Wella car from 75 go to? Have we been here before !!

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

The Morrison Bowditch T360 is HU5 and runs like this
1974: Nigel Clarkson also raced by Richard Scott
1975 Nick May
1976 Brian Robinson
1977 John Morrison
1978 Kevin Bowditch [big accident]
1979 Martin Mansell

The Scott/Bailey car in 1974 is a works prototype
but it's not AU1 which seems to have been the jig model.
I'm still trying to determine if the Bailey prototype had a model no
and if it was the Trimmer and King car in 1976 Indyatlantic

Chris

[Chris Townsend]

Dan

The Wentz car [HU7]seems to have come to a sticky end in a testing accident, driven by Roy James in Sept '75. In the last few races of that season Wentz appears in a prototype 'T362' which seems to be the basis of the T460

Chris

[Colin Haste]

Chris and Dan
I have been working on the US side,I found the current owner of HU12 a "Mark barr Austin Texas" I'm hoping he will look up and give me the names of the previous owners.He tells me there is another 460 there I a have a contact so will follow up.I have found Steve Jizmagian the name of the driver on my body it apears he was the original owner but not my car it appears he trashed his car in 79 and sold it off in bits he is coming back to me with more info hopfully this week.
Col

[Colin Haste]

Chris and Dan
I have found a Michael Duncan who says he owned T460s HU1 and HU2 in the late 80s i'm hoping he will be able to get some early history from him re these cars. I also found Steve Jizmagian in the US his name was on the body of my car but it seems I finnished up with the body he was the original owner of his car and after trashing it in the late 70s sold it off in bits, i'm hoping he can find the plate number to put a nother piece in place.
Colin

[Colin Haste]

Further info on HU1 & HU2 Michael Duncan believes that they were owned or raced by Hector Rebaque and Tom Klausler.Could it be the first 460s went to the US?and where are they now?
Colin