Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B Coupe (1938 Le Mans)

[J.J.S.S.Express]

I search to find what is this car. Do you have any ideas ?
I think this picture has been taken at Silverstone but I'm not sure...

[Dave Brand]

It's an Alfa 8C 2900 with body by Carrozzeria Touring which was built for the 1938 Le Mans race, which is probably where the picture was taken.

[mgrs]

well the one thing i know for sure is that they are all in for one hell of a *******ing from the ACO, complete disregard for the regs here. no goggles, no fireman (well cant see him), to many people in the pit lane, fueling whilst the engine cover is up. And is that man wearing plus 4's, immediate stop go for those!

[John Turner]

This is a very famous car, still owned and kept by Alfa in their museum and allowed out occasionally for special events. As Dave Brand says it is the 1938 8C 2900B fitted with a body by Carrozzeria Touring and the only one built in this form. It was entered for that year's Le Mans carrying the no 19, and that photo above is therefore taken in the pits at Le Mans. The car was driven by Sommer and Biondetti, and was devastatingly fast. At the end of 12 hours, it was leading by 5 laps comfortably outpacing all its pursuers with performance in hand. After 21 hours it had a 12 lap lead, due both to its continuing pace and attrition amongst its competitors. However, it then had a front wheel puncture which damaged the bodywork. Following pitwork it continued to lead but then had a engine valve break, resulting in several pitstops and finally retirement, when Biondetti limped into the pits at the end of 22 hours. A Magnificent run, a magnificent failure and a magnificent motor car. A truly great GT car before that term was coined.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by mgrs

well the one thing i know for sure is that they are all in for one hell of a *******ing from the ACO, complete disregard for the regs here. no goggles, no fireman (well cant see him), to many people in the pit lane, fueling whilst the engine cover is up. And is that man wearing plus 4's, immediate stop go for those!

Well don't forget we are talking 1938 here. However, I agree that, unless you knew, the appearance of the car could suggest an early 1950's picture.

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

[iucrmh]

Originally Posted by John Turner

Incidentally, Minichamps produced a good model of this car a year or two back, limited to 4004 pieces. It's an absolute must for anyone collecting Le Mans models.

Also released by a company called Pinko (worth looking out for) and as a handbuilt by Provence Moulage (just before they went bust).

Minichamps model looks like this,
http://www.minichamps.de/content_fra...3=160&cat4=168
Pinko like this,
http://www.gammamodels.com/modello.asp?idauton=265

[fazzaz]

The Alfa 8C LM coupe was informally known as "The Devil's Breath."

[krt917]

Originally Posted by John Turner

This is a very famous car, still owned and kept by Alfa in their museum and allowed out occasionally for special events. As Dave Brand says it is the 1938 8C 2900B fitted with a body by Carrozzeria Touring and the only one built in this form. It was entered for that year's Le Mans carrying the no 19, and that photo above is therefore taken in the pits at Le Mans. The car was driven by Sommer and Biondetti, and was devastatingly fast. At the end of 12 hours, it was leading by 5 laps comfortably outpacing all its pursuers with performance in hand. After 21 hours it had a 12 lap lead, due both to its continuing pace and attrition amongst its competitors. However, it then had a front wheel puncture which damaged the bodywork. Following pitwork it continued to lead but then had a engine valve brake resulting in several pitstops and finally retirement, when Biondetti limped into the pits at the end of 22 hours. A Magnificent run, a magnificent failure and a magnificent motor car. A truly great GT car before that term was coined.

Just to add, it was basically the lone challenger to the hordes of French Delages, Delahayes and Talbots. The Alfa ran ahead of them - and the Bugatti race record pace from the year before - before backing off a bit.

Such was it's lead it took the eventual winner an hour or more to actually overhaul the distance covered by the Alfa. One of the great hard-luck stories of Le Mans history.

It's one of my all-time favourites, partly due to that story, and partly due to its appearance. I've always preferred coupes, and that was one of the few closed cars to appear at Le Mans before WW2. I think it's fantastic!

As an extra note, I believe there was a smaller engined Alfa 8C entered the following year with similar bodywork, but that car had a nightmare run.

[J.J.S.S.Express]

than you for your answers !

[TWK]

So that's where BMW got the idea!

[John Turner]

Are you referring to the 328 Coupe that finished 5th at Le Mans in 1939? There were certainly some styling similarities.

[TWK]

No, I'm referring to the much more recent M-Coupe and the newer Z4-based "breadwagon." The resemblence in the Le Mans pits photo is erie.

[John Turner]

Well, in a way there could be a link. The M coupe (which I think is a wonderful crazy tool) was based on the Z3 which was decidedly, and intentionally retro (as to a certain extent is the Z4), and clearly took its styling cues from earlier BMWs. The BMW coupe I mentioned above had a styling much in common with the Alfa, so you may well have identified the link.

[krt917]

It's great that there are models of this. Only thing about the Minichamps one is that I think the red is too dark

[fazzaz]

BBR did a very nice handlbuild of the 2.9 coupe a few years ago as well (which I have in company with the two BBR short-chassis Touring Spyders). It makes the Minichamps an even better value for money, although I don't believe that either company got the tail just exactly correct.

[Dave Brand]

I've never seen the Minichamps model (or the real car!) but the photo in Model Auto Review does make it look a very dark red. The photo of the real car in 'Alfa Romeo - Always With Passion' by David Owen makes it look a much lighter red.

What we're up against is the vagaries of colour reproduction - only by seeing the model & the real car together can we be really sure; then there's always the problem that a car as old as this will probably not have it original paint, so we can't be sure of its exact colour when raced at Le Mans.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by fazzaz

It makes the Minichamps an even better value for money, although I don't believe that either company got the tail just exactly correct.

Yes, it's quite an unusual shape, probably difficult to replicate exactly.

[krt917]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

What we're up against is the vagaries of colour reproduction - only by seeing the model & the real car together can we be really sure; then there's always the problem that a car as old as this will probably not have it original paint, so we can't be sure of its exact colour when raced at Le Mans.

Very true, and red seems to be particularly problematic. I have (well, had, it seems to have gone missing in a recent move!) a Solido model of the 1970 Le Mans winning 917. The model is orange, but a picture I have of it shows it to be more red (which is certainly the colour that other Porsche Salzburg cars seem to use). Looking into it a bit more closely, I found that many pictures, and the several models produced of the car, presented very different shades. I'm still certain that the car was more red than orange!

As for the Alfa tail, I would imagine that it is a particularly difficult shape to capture. I was fortunate enough to see the real car at the Goodwood Festival a few years back, and I remember thinking how unusual it looked from the back.

[John Turner]

I recently had the good fortune to speak to Simon Moore, author of two works about pre war Alfas, 'The Immortal 2.9' and 'The Legendary 2.3' which are the Alfa bibles for these models. I took the opportunity of raising the issue about authenticity of colours for these cars and in particular the 1938 Le Mans car. He advised that it is simply not possible to be a 100% certain of the correct colour shade of any car from the 30's, due to the constituency of the paints used since the aging process (as referred to by Dave, above) includes chemical reactions that alter the shade over time. Even where the original paint is found under layers of new paint or on some obscure untouched part of the car, there is no guarantee that the colour shade that you are looking at is the same as it appeared 60 or 70 years ago because it will still have been affected by oxidisation. Even early post war colour film will not help since different film brands would produce different shades of colour even where all the other circumstances (location, lighting, etc) were identical. The best we can rely on in these cases are peoples memories and, of course, not only does memory fade and play tricks on you, there are fewer and fewer people around who will have seen these cars first hand. The upshot of all this is that Minichamps have interpreted the original colour to the best of their ability. Although from a purely personal point of view, I would have liked to see a bit more red and a couple of shades lighter, because that's how I pictured it in my mind, who is to say they are wrong!

[Jost Wildbolz]

....have found a picture at Klauenpasshilclimb 2006 of this 2.9 le Man coupeIMG_8017 Kopie.JPG

[Alex E]

I recall a conversation years ago about a Mille Miglia winning Alfa being bought by Hugh Hunter & raced at Brooklands?
Is this possibly correct ?

[John Turner]

Alex, yes, although it is not 100% certain that the Hugh Hunter car (412031) was the MM winner (the other possible but less likely candidate is 412032) but he did indeed then race it at Brooklands, during 1939, in a number of events with varying success. The Le Mans Coupe discussed above is 412033, originally an MM spider but rebodied by Touring for the 1938 Le Mans (Source - 'The Immortal 2.9' by Simon Moore)