Class 1 Touring Cars

[BSchneiderFan]

I read somewhere that both BMW and Audi built prototypes for Class 1 in the DTM in 1993. Does anyone know if this is true, and, if so, have any more details?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I read somewhere that both BMW and Audi built prototypes for Class 1 in the DTM in 1993. Does anyone know if this is true, and, if so, have any more details?

There are plenty of pictures of the Audi on the internet.... Google is your friend. Not too sure about the bimmer, might have been an intermediary/modified Gr.A car like the first C-class?

[Bramzel]

Here's the Audi:



The only BMW I know that comes close is this one, but that was a private effort (Lindner):





Then in 1994 there was this one, also privateer. I don't know if it was an evolution of the Lindner one or a new effort?



There are also stories that the BMW E36 GTR was originally developed for DTM, only to be 'relocated' to GT-racing later. I never found confirmation for that story though:

[Bramzel]

I also found this picture while looking for the images above. Seems to be a early prototype for the C-Class DTM, it's much more understated than the version that ran in 1994. Does anybody know the story behind it?

[FIRE]

Great looking cars.

[BSchneiderFan]

The Audi looked really good. What a shame they didn't push ahead with a factory team.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I also found this picture while looking for the images above. Seems to be a early prototype for the C-Class DTM, it's much more understated than the version that ran in 1994. Does anybody know the story behind it?

With these dark tinted windows it looks more like a mockup car.

[PorscheFanNo1]

There were two of those Audi chassies made, one is in the Audi museum and the other one is in Sweden (or atleast was a coupe of years ago) in private hands.

[DS"]

This is an actual BMW Motorsport prototype of a class 1 E36.

[Bramzel]

Awesome, I've never seem that image before!

[PorscheFanNo1]

Although I'm very glad Audi and BMW went the Supertouring way, being two of the absolute top manufacturers and undoubtedly the two who drove STW up to the level it was at, I cant stop thinking how DTM and ITC would have looked had they both decided to go Class 1 racing instead.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

Although I'm very glad Audi and BMW went the Supertouring way, being two of the absolute top manufacturers and undoubtedly the two who drove STW up to the level it was at, I cant stop thinking how DTM and ITC would have looked had they both decided to go Class 1 racing instead.

And if France had stayed on board... might have given the whole thing a bit more stability.

[Sodemo]

Proper touring cars.

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by DS"

This is an actual BMW Motorsport prototype of a class 1 E36.

I think this was also the basis of the BMW Art car of Sandro Chia
http://www.bmwartcarcollection.com/2...-bmw-art-car/#

[Pettersson]

Some more pics of the BMW

This test car had the S14 M3 E30 engine.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by FIRE

With these dark tinted windows it looks more like a mockup car.

When I spoke to Stuttgart in late '93 or early '94 there was a serious chance Mercedes would build a Class 2 car.
Whether this was to compete head on with BMW and Audi or a wind up I don't know?

[DS"]

Originally Posted by chunterer

When I spoke to Stuttgart in late '93 or early '94 there was a serious chance Mercedes would build a Class 2 car.
Whether this was to compete head on with BMW and Audi or a wind up I don't know?

Would they build a supertouring Mercedes or did they actually build one? Because I've also heard rumours that Mercedes did actually build a class 2 prototype. Now I doubt that Mercedes would have built a car just to race in STW, as STW just didn't have quite the reputation of DTM. But I would have always thought that BTCC in the 90's would have been a nice playground for Mercedes. However, after the end of the ITC, Mercedes' then-chairman clearly said that a brand such as Mercedes shouldn't run alongside these "tin boxes". A shame and one reason while I don't particularly like Mercedes' racing division.

[BSchneiderFan]

But when the ITC folded they built the beautiful CLK-GTR, so I can't criticise too much. Would have been nice to have seen a Super Touring C-Class, though - anyone have any more info?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by DS"

Would they build a supertouring Mercedes or did they actually build one? Because I've also heard rumours that Mercedes did actually build a class 2 prototype. Now I doubt that Mercedes would have built a car just to race in STW, as STW just didn't have quite the reputation of DTM. But I would have always thought that BTCC in the 90's would have been a nice playground for Mercedes. However, after the end of the ITC, Mercedes' then-chairman clearly said that a brand such as Mercedes shouldn't run alongside these "tin boxes". A shame and one reason while I don't particularly like Mercedes' racing division.

Indeed, the 'repmobile' racing didn't fit Merc's image at the time. I think Wolfgang Schattling who was the Motorsport Press guy at the time (how his career grew!) intimated as such.

Today it would be different.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by DS"

However, after the end of the ITC, Mercedes' then-chairman clearly said that a brand such as Mercedes shouldn't run alongside these "tin boxes". A shame and one reason while I don't particularly like Mercedes' racing division.

That arrogance is one of the reasons I don't really like Mercedes.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Indeed, the 'repmobile' racing didn't fit Merc's image at the time. I think Wolfgang Schattling who was the Motorsport Press guy at the time (how his career grew!) intimated as such.

Today it would be different.

Funny you should mention Wolfgang Schattling - he retires from Mercedes this weekend!

[S griffin]

Is it the 1993 Prodrive BTCC entry you guys are thinking of? It was supposed to do a few races towards the end of the year with Tim Sugden driving, but as you say Mercedes weren't a fan of Class 2

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Is it the 1993 Prodrive BTCC entry you guys are thinking of? It was supposed to do a few races towards the end of the year with Tim Sugden driving, but as you say Mercedes weren't a fan of Class 2

No, this would have been a works entry in 1994 or 1995, although DR could well have been courting Benz at the same time as Alfa😉

[thorsten247]

Originally Posted by DS"

Would they build a supertouring Mercedes or did they actually build one? Because I've also heard rumours that Mercedes did actually build a class 2 prototype. Now I doubt that Mercedes would have built a car just to race in STW, as STW just didn't have quite the reputation of DTM. But I would have always thought that BTCC in the 90's would have been a nice playground for Mercedes. However, after the end of the ITC, Mercedes' then-chairman clearly said that a brand such as Mercedes shouldn't run alongside these "tin boxes". A shame and one reason while I don't particularly like Mercedes' racing division.

Hello! It's correct, Mercedes build a Class II Showcar and also a race engine. In the beginning of 1993, AMG build a Class II-Engine and later in the year they presented the engine and a showcar based on the C-Class (W202) to Helmut Werner, chairman of Mercedes.

But Mercedes say no to the Showcar and yes to continue the Class 1 programme.

Greetings, Thorsten

[DS"]

Originally Posted by thorsten247

Hello! It's correct, Mercedes build a Class II Showcar and also a race engine. In the beginning of 1993, AMG build a Class II-Engine and later in the year they presented the engine and a showcar based on the C-Class (W202) to Helmut Werner, chairman of Mercedes.

But Mercedes say no to the Showcar and yes to continue the Class 1 programme.

Greetings, Thorsten

That's certainly interesting to hear. It also fits with the "tin boxes" statement Jürgen Schrempp made later on after the end of the ITC. As I've said: It's too bad that Mercedes seems to avoid production-based touring car racing at all costs. The CLA AMG for example would fit very well into TCR or even TC1. While I can understand that Mercedes wants to have some sort of works racing program in their home country, I can't understand with manufacturers with a large tradition of touring car racing (That goes to all current DTM manufacturers) are avoiding a touring car world championship at the moment. But that's for another topic...