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20 Dec 2008, 13:35 (Ref:2358823) | #1 | ||
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1965 Porsche 911 2.0
Out of interest could someone please tell me whether cars are allowed to run Weber's or do they have to run Solex to comply with FIA? Does it make a lot of difference?
Also are 2.0s engine spec allowed to run and if so again what is the difference between this and an L spec? Why was the podium car excluded from this year's Six Hour? |
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20 Dec 2008, 13:54 (Ref:2358834) | #2 | ||
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Solex only dear boy,2]Hardley any at all.3] I belive that the "S" engine is perfectly acceptable in 2ltr form,its the 2.7s that are the pain.4] Because of it being something like 45kg underweight.
As far as S and L specs are concerned,I'll leave that to someone who really knows but I always thought it to be compression and cam mostly.Has your leg been on a diet yet? |
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
20 Dec 2008, 14:02 (Ref:2358836) | #3 | |||
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Up until a few years ago no one wanted to race 911's as they were considered heavy and slow but now they seem to be having a resurgance. Is this because of an overlooked breach which will be closed? Is it feasonable to convert an L spec engine to an S and if so whats the cost or is it easier to start again? |
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20 Dec 2008, 14:20 (Ref:2358841) | #4 | ||
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The resurgence was recognised months ago by Ivan Dutton,snapping up everything that was cheap around the country [apart from one ]
Going from L to S shouldnt warrant starting again Simon it must only be something like a piston change and cam swop,they do tend to run a fair bit of weight but there is a certain amount to be legally removed. |
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
20 Dec 2008, 14:42 (Ref:2358845) | #5 | ||
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I was thinking even before Ivan Dutton. They are homologated at 817kg I think - which I guess is similar to a B but presumably power should be greater if both legal...
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20 Dec 2008, 15:11 (Ref:2358853) | #6 | ||
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That surprise's me Simon,dont know why but I always thought they were heavier,they have an advantage of 31kg under a B.That thing I had advertised is still available but it certainly is not worth what he was asking,there is a problem with either a valve guide or piston rings.The interior paint is not nice,I should have had a look myself rather than take some-elses word on the condition!,I dont think it would be worth half of the original asking price.But saying all of this does'nt mean it would be a bad car [at the right money] it is an "S" and has the right bits on it already.
Last edited by terence; 20 Dec 2008 at 15:14. |
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
20 Dec 2008, 15:45 (Ref:2358863) | #7 | ||
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Well we need one-two to give us the definitive answer on weight. I have to say I am always impressed with how well they race as my recollections of my roadcar was that they are terrifying in the wet!
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20 Dec 2008, 18:02 (Ref:2358930) | #8 | |
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911
Simon - we run at 1002kg. I think - in very round numbers - we have a 10% power advantage against a B and a 10% weight disadvantage. Means the racing between the two can be very close, though a 911 ought to be the quicker car on a circuit with decent straights. It's solexes only in period F. I think most cars are probably running S-type high compression pistons and cams - though there is quite a wide variety on the latter from the mild to the wild.
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20 Dec 2008, 18:23 (Ref:2358938) | #9 | ||
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Well done one two,the B is homologated at 848kg.What power would you expect from a legal "S" engine?
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
20 Dec 2008, 20:20 (Ref:2358987) | #10 | |
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911
So the weight disadvantage is a little more than I thought - more like 20% than 10%. Explains a lot! The quicker 2 litre cars are around 180hp - hard to get them beyond that etc
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20 Dec 2008, 21:07 (Ref:2359008) | #11 | ||
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I think the 911s are developed very well (to well) especially our dutchies(duell) . but one has to admit that the drivers did addapt to those unpleasant cars as well. There are some awsome videos to be seen at youtube. just put 911 and francorchamps and you can see those guys just go sideways all the way. (I am sorry, I dont want to insult anybody with a 911 but my son and I tried to build a similar setup in LEGO and it really doesnt work with that aircooled engine putting all the weight in the back)
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
20 Dec 2008, 22:04 (Ref:2359026) | #12 | |||
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Quote:
So in theory they should be pretty close together after-all. |
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Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me. |
21 Dec 2008, 09:59 (Ref:2359173) | #13 | |||
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So they are in fact quite indulgent bang for your buck. This whole thread started because I saw a rally spec one with FIA papers on EBay for sensible money (as opposed to the £60-65k cars I have seen advertised - which is E Type Coupe territory) and it got me thinking. Like B's they are as tough as old boots and cheap to run but with a big weight disadvantage... Is that why people rally them instead? |
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21 Dec 2008, 11:03 (Ref:2359185) | #14 | ||
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I guess they might also be a bit more aerodynamic than the competition, which at places like Spa is an advantage. The tail-happiness from the weight distribution wouldn't show there as much as (say) Silverstone where there are some rapid direction changes (Maggots/Beckets and Bridge).
So long straights, fast sweeps would perhaps suit them. And again at Spa there are two slow corners where the rear end bias wil provide for more traction. And of course they were very successful rally cars too. |
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21 Dec 2008, 22:43 (Ref:2359450) | #15 | ||
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the honnest cars at Spa had some serious money invested. the a960s 911 was already a briliant piece of engineering which cant be said of an MGB and then modern technology in great shockers and engines with todays knowledge.
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did anyone find my 3/4-7/8 GEDORE ringspanner at SPA? |
31 Dec 2008, 00:17 (Ref:2363059) | #16 | |
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Hi!
I´m not an expert on Porsches, but have been in it so much to say that you cannot run 911 S heads if you are going in Period F (-65) as you are limited to the valve sizes 39/35 mm according to Homolog. form 183, and the valve sizes of the 911 S are 42/39 if I remember right, and they are also later than -65. But you can use 911 S pistons and cams; budget bits in this case as oposed to special pistons and Carrera & cams or similar. As said earlier in this thread the weight is (heavy!) 1002 kgs, and you can just use Solexes. However, if you are going to run it as a "G" period car, you can also use Webers, and the weight is down to an "amazing" 999 kg according to Homolog.form 503. But in "G" you could as well build a 911 S with those big valves and also bigger ports from the beginning, remember a 911 S had 160 hp just from the scratch. I don´t know of the weight for an "S" but the homologation paper 547, again if I remember right, will tell. Might be they became less honest and could produce a more "competitive" weight by then. |
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31 Dec 2008, 04:35 (Ref:2363159) | #17 | ||
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When I was in Ireland in 1998 -99 we tried all manner of means to beat Dessie Nutt in his 911 (histroric rally), I prepped a Manta A (post historic rally)(the owners knew each other well) & used all the tricks we could suspension wise from one of my Manta 400 set ups, a really stiff shell, good cage in it - as light as we could be legally, corner weighted, etc.
We had about 180bhp - 4 speed cr sc box & a couple of diff ratios. We succeeded once - we didn't beat it - we just got it to break. At the time it was rumoured that the gear ratios were the key, plenty of them - all homologated. those + Fran Tuthill prep on the car & Dessie's driving - unbeatable combo |
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31 Dec 2008, 12:55 (Ref:2363296) | #18 | ||
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an interesting point - the cars have been used more for rallying than racing where of course weight is not so much of an issue. There is no getting away from the fact that they are 150 kg over an MGB...
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