WEC round 2, Spa 6H - 3, 4 & 5 May 2012

[Coach Ep]

Early days but here is the provisional timing.

And seasonal entry list here.

We already know that Pescarolo is planning on bringing the Dome and there could be up to 4 Audi´s (2 hybrid + 2 conventional R18´s).

Approx. 35 cars are expected.

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Daily Sportscar Resource Page - all the links you need!

[NelisB]

So it's a Saturday race and it ends at 8:30. That's pretty late compared to last year when it finished at 7 I think. Does anyone have information about staying at or in the neighborhood of the circuit?

[lemansfan]

http://www.spa-francorchamps.be/nl/t...ncorchamps.php

Think that are the Infos you are looking for .

[Marcel ten Caat]

Not sure if 35 cars for Spa is something to be happy with.

As part the Le Mans Series there was always a grid of 40+ cars, with 55 being the max last year together with ILMC.

The last time a long-distance sportscar event (not the 24H) had 35 was back in 2003 when the FIA Sports Car Championship raced there with British GT. Before that it as even worse ;-)

[Rodger Davies]

agreed Marcel, was thinking of making the trip to Spa but if the ELMS crowd aren't going to play ball with this awful WEC concept then it won't have the variety of sights and sounds of previous years that have made it worthwhile. Spa 24 it is then.

[JohnDavis]

The Spa round will have the best sportscar grid this year outside Sebring and Le Mans with additional cars from the ELMS.

I can'tsee the attraction in watching identical GT3 cars in dozens of series every weekend, its almost NASCAR like in it's controlled nature. SRO decides what the quickest car is at the start of the season (this season it's obviously Mclarens turn for success), and we are meant to be excited because we can see 10 of the same cars in the same race.

Give me a WEC, ALMS or ELMS round any day of the week.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Question is what ELMS teams are coming over to race at Spa?

Mind you that they have their Belgian race weekend 2 weekends later at Zolder, followed by Le Mans Test Day and 24 Hours of Le Mans in the weeks after.

If you're an ELMS team owner would send your car to a non-championship event in which you can not score points? With the additional risk of damaging your car and/or putting extra mileage on parts that means extra costs ahead of Le Mans or hurt your chances in the ELMS title hunt?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Marcel ten Caat

Question is what ELMS teams are coming over to race at Spa?

Mind you that they have their Belgian race weekend 2 weekends later at Zolder, followed by Le Mans Test Day and 24 Hours of Le Mans in the weeks after.

If you're an ELMS team owner would send your car to a non-championship event in which you can not score points? With the additional risk of damaging your car and/or putting extra mileage on parts that means extra costs ahead of Le Mans or hurt your chances in the ELMS title hunt?

Wouldn't that also depend on the people who bring the budget? So if, let's say, the driver who brings a significant amount of sponsorship budget to the team wants to race in a WEC round as well...?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by NelisB

So it's a Saturday race and it ends at 8:30. That's pretty late compared to last year when it finished at 7 I think. Does anyone have information about staying at or in the neighborhood of the circuit?

We generally stay in Liege the night after - it's not a long drive up there and should be perfectly feasible after a 2030 end of the race.

35 cars is disappointing - Spa's a track which can take a good big grid, and I can't help thinking sportscar racing has essentially cut its nose off to spite its face with the two Belgian weekends being in such close proximity. From a personal perspective I'd have been inclined to do both, but not in the same month...

[FordCosworthPanoz]

35 cars at Spa is certainly not that great especially amongst 4 classes.. Marcel is right on twitter, where is the improvement? I doubt we'll see many (if any) ELMS teams come over considering the close proximity to other crucial race weekends.

[Rodger Davies]

daft thing is, doesn't the ELMS only have 21 or so full season entries? so even combining those two grids it would be smaller than Sebring's entry. Or the same event for the last two years, for that matter.

[Dead-Eye]

35 cars is disappointing and I might consider not going for the first time since 2009, but on the other hand I really want to see the Toyota and the Dome...

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

35 cars is disappointing and I might consider not going for the first time since 2009, but on the other hand I really want to see the Toyota and the Dome...

I'd be surprised if it stayed as low as 35. While I don't see a huge gush of ELMS entrants, those with a pair of Le Mans entries such as Oak and Greaves seem likely possible runners at Spa.

Is the lower than hoped for entry list enough to keep me away? I'm not sure - I suspect even if it's not as appealing a prospect as we've seen previously I'll still be heading for the tunnel come the 6th.

[Marcel ten Caat]

isynge: i really hope there will be far over 35 cars on the grid for Spa.

But, there are 30 cars confirmed for the WEC season. We can add extra Audi and Pescarolo cars to that for Spa. OAK Racing already has cars in the WEC so might be tempted to bring an extra one.

As for budgets. A driver "who brings a significant amount of sponsorship budget to the team" will probably have used that money to buy himself into the ELMS seat. Extra races outside the regular season + Le Mans would be extra costs. And if his sponsor budget was that much, why didn't he do full WEC anyways?

For Spa the entry is limited at 64 cars, for Silverstone it is 60 (track limitation). Given the fact that teams like OAK Racing and Pecom run in both championships it seems likely that a joint race would have been possible again - as long as you have the same line-up for both or have enough cars.

Instead of having a stellar grid for 1 race, like at Sebring, both Belgium and the UK now have 2 sportscar events with smaller grids - and some of the teams/cars doing both rounds + Le Mans. So fans see those cars racing everywhere agains different opponents...confusing?!?

[96290]

-One is a world championship the others a European championship.

-Both are in there first year in this new format.

-Even with expected grids this year it would be touch and go for cars to be turned away in a joint race.

-The WEC list is limited to 30 by choice and could be expanded next year.

-There were serious doubts the LMS would even run this year never mind have such a large LMP field.


Isn't it a case of giving both championships space to grow rather than stepping on each others toes. In 2013 you could realistically have 35 or more WEC cars and 35 to 40 for the LMS, the old LMS saw a similar jump in size in 2005 to 2006, Blancpain is already full and who knows whats going to happen to FIA GT1 and FIA GT3, they could combine of teams could looked elsewhere.

[96290]

My post disappeared.

To sum up, you need to look at what grids the WEC and LMS could get in 2013 and how the LMS in particular would be in a difficult position turning teams away.

The LMS in the mid 2000's saw a grid boom in just one close season and Blancpain is experiencing one now, you can't rely on the LMS always having under 30 cars in fact theyre expecting 35 this season.

[DeathOrGlory]

Any streaming? Dailymotion?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by 96290

Isn't it a case of giving both championships space to grow rather than stepping on each others toes. In 2013 you could realistically have 35 or more WEC cars and 35 to 40 for the LMS

Originally Posted by 96290

To sum up, you need to look at what grids the WEC and LMS could get in 2013 and how the LMS in particular would be in a difficult position turning teams away.

The LMS in the mid 2000's saw a grid boom in just one close season and Blancpain is experiencing one now, you can't rely on the LMS always having under 30 cars in fact theyre expecting 35 this season.

This is all wishfull thinking, nothing to do with realistic expectations. In fact it´s the world upside down - how on earth could the ELMS be turning away entries?

And what´s there to grow for the ELMS? With only a handful of auto entries for Le Mans on offer what´s the trigger for teams to participate in a series that also has a lousy calender? Not even GTC teams are making the jump it seems. Tells you something...

There might be a few new teams stepping up to the WEC but next year it´s not a novelty anymore and there will be teams who´ll find the schedule (too) difficult to cope with financially, and switch series over the winter or disappear. I could see that happening already during this season once the series goes overseas.

The WEC wants to run stand alone races because they don´t want outsiders to interfere with their championship; odd then that the most important round of the championship (Le Mans is a double points scoring round) is run with more than just a couple of additional entries and potentially having a larger impact on the outcome than any of the other races. And since big grids are allowed on both the Spa and Silverstone tracks, the ACO-FIA´s policy doesn´t make sense.

Divide and conquer? I fear it will turn out more like divide and weaken

As said, I expect around 35 entries for Spa, that´s certainly not bad but we´ve been spoiled over the last couple of years and therefor the number is disappointing (maybe not at Interlagos, Fuji or Shanghai but on a long track like Spa it is). And realizing that the potential is certainly there for a repeat of the Sebring and Le Mans entry numbers makes it worse.

[96290_]

Is there anything more nailed on than ELMS growing big next year? If they have 20 lmp now when some predictions were a handful there must be demand for this form of racing that was misread. Next season I can't see much less than 30 lmp, GTE or GTC could join but I don't see either to being a major player.

Plenty of places to race a GT, its saturated and you can see how Blancpain is begining to dominate with FIA GT1 and more FIA GT3 dropping out of spotlight.

Blancpain is now a full house, GT3s are getting more expensive than lmp2s when you look at 3 year program cost and there's always going to be demand from pros and amateurs to get a ride in the quickest cars open to 'em. Le Mans will be target for many with a suitable car but a team/drivers motivation isn't reliant only on Le Mans.

Audi alone has sold 70 odd R8 LMS, in the past Porsche and Spice sold dozens of GTP's, I don't see why a Lola or Oraca cant rack up decent sales when any half decent privateer can buy such a car and be in with a chance of winning. Wouldn't be suprised to see a number of teams running a GT3 and lmp2 in future, Boutsen, United A, Vita4One, AF Corse, VDS, you can make a good business and pay driver opportunies in WEC, LMS, ALMS as well as GT3.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

The WEC wants to run stand alone races because they don´t want outsiders to interfere with their championship; odd then that the most important round of the championship (Le Mans is a double points scoring round) is run with more than just a couple of additional entries and potentially having a larger impact on the outcome than any of the other races. And since big grids are allowed on both the Spa and Silverstone tracks, the ACO-FIA´s policy doesn´t make sense.

Divide and conquer? I fear it will turn out more like divide and weaken

I think it was technically the ELMS that wanted to run stand alone events and not the WEC, but there could have been a mutual feeling. Regardless, divide and conquer is correct because ELMS teams were treated as 3rd class citizens during the ELMS/ILMC shared events last year. That might actually be an understatement. Of course, it's not like the ILMC GTE cars and stuff got much publicity either so I guess just about everyone who wasn't Audi or Peugeot was treated in a 3rd class fashion.

I agree with the rest of your post though. With the WEC you'll have the richest of the rich competing (until they decide that they don't want to compete anymore ala Peugeot) and you'll see the richest of the amateurs competing in amateur classes. Well, that is until they've decided that they've had enough of paying to run a whole world championship in such illustrious places as Bahrain just to get a Le Mans bid and return to the European GT ranks or something like that.

[kober]

It's over six weeks until the weekend, when "the hybrids" will be raced for the first time, but ACO have released a trailer already. It's nicely done, although I have no clue who's the guy that speaks in the video

Timetable

2012 WEC Entry List (just a reminder)

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by kober

It's over six weeks until the weekend, when "the hybrids" will be raced for the first time, but ACO have released a trailer already. It's nicely done, although I have no clue who's the guy that speaks in the video

Timetable

2012 WEC Entry List (just a reminder)

It's Bertrand Baguette if I'm not mistaking.

[The Badger]

Wheres the enrty list , timing and scoring , and all the other race info links ?

[Simmi]

Will be interesting to see if this gets a big injection of ELMS entries if some rumours are to be believed.

[The Badger]

Its brilliant to see some American flags beside the team names .