FORD on the down

[gttouring]

With ford displaying so many disturbing profit trends, i.e. losses, ahwt are they to do, WRC is affected, F1 is hurting, and yet they stay in it and keep hustling. What is a step they can do o improve the situation?
Firstly like GM, ford has many redundancies in their line ups, and should pare down, and many loser marques (like Mercury) and too many models. any thought on the trimming or restructering? Even GM could use this- their Idea that buick of all things can gain market share again, and even be a desired luxury brand is laughable, Buick, and Olds should've been put to rest- in north america GM should have held on to Chevy Caddilac and Pontiac- absorb GMC into chevy and saturn into Pontiac, i can't even imagine what else is hanging about that i missed in GM's stable...

[RTH]

Ford have just announced that their London design studio which opened in a blaze of publicity 18 months ago in Soho is to shut - due to cost cutting.

Worldwide the are looking to cut spending by $3 BN per year.

The Rally programme which has a winning car and a credible shot at next years title with Marko Martin has only just got the green light.

The Jaguar team which for me has only damaged brand image, despite repeated assurances that they will keep going, must now look vulnerable to spending cuts . Taking on a 20 year old who does not have a win tally like Ayrton Senna but does come bearing gifts of £12M means things on the financial front are very worrying . Will they see out the season ?

[Mattracer]

Well Ford has just taken out the Australian V8 Supercar series formerly known as the Australian Touring Car Championship, their first since 1997. I'm hoping they will be milking it for all it's worth, and the model that won it, the BA Falcon, also took Car of the Year in Australia.

[Airhead]

As the owner of a BA XR6T and being present at Oran Park when Glen Seton last won the championship - got my son an autograph by waiting outside a toilet -
things are looking up.

[Neil C]

I do not forsee a time when Ford separates itself completely from Motorsport. Living where I do, in the shadow of their HDQ, and a (poorer) neighbor of Bill Ford, Jr., I know there are just too many motorheads at FoMoCo. Henry Ford was racing cars before he started Ford Motor.

Even now, performance street cars are the buzz at Ford; the GT40, the '05 Mustang, the SVT Focus. Even Lincoln has a "drivers" option with the LS with "euro" suspension and V6/manual transmission options.

There will be cuts in spending for sure, but in the end Ford and its motorsport support will continue.

My suggestion would be to allign their brands with one form of racing, such as:

Ford: NASCAR and GT style sedan.
Volvo: Rally
Jaguar: F1
Lincoln/Mercury: Endurance

[garcon]

Or...

Ford US/Aus: NASCAR and GT style sedan (eg Aussie V8s)
Ford UK: World Rally
Volvo: UK/Euro Touring Cars
Mazda: Asia Touring Cars
Jaguar: F1 ... plus possibly Endurance (GT or LMP) - that would be popular with Brits
Linoln/Mercury: Endurance (LMP)

[Neil C]

I forgot Mazda, merci garcon.

Maybe Ford should just pack up and move into Volvo HDQ in Sweden. They could call it Fjord Motor Company.

[gttouring]

Fjord MO CO ha ha ha
good-
Ford's motorsports activities not withstanding- they really need to cut their lineups down abit- afterall Mercury and Ford share many products the Grand MArquis and CrownVic, the Sable and Taurus, the old mystique/contour- all this redundancy must be cut away, Leave Ford and Lincoln to be the upscale side of thing. where does it end? Mazda hmm looks good so far, even great some more motorsports from them would be nice.

[Neil C]

Though Mercury has a long and great history as an "upscale" Ford, you are probably right. Oldsmobile was redundant as was Plymouth, and both are history.

Merc had only a couple unique cars over the past decade including the most recent Cougar and the Miata style Capri. Certainly not enough to sustain the marque. Lincoln would do well to step into the vacuum left by Merc. In fact the LS is pretty much the intermediate step between Ford and the big Lincoln barges.

As for GMC, the reason GMC trucks are built is so the other GM brand dealers have a truck to sell without having to sell a "Chevy". I don't know if that matters anymore, thus the GMC brand seems redundant as well.

[gttouring]

exaclty what i am talking about Neil- Ford could do well just being Ford, not Volvo or Aston or jaguar- just Ford
but alas mega corps like this are just standard nowadays, everything is owned by some one or something...

[Neil C]

Well, I'm not prepared to say I agree with you 100% on that point.

The fact that the Jaguar S-type, Lincoln LS, Ford T-bird and the new Mustang all share the same platform has probably helped guarantee the continued existence of Jaguar, where it may not have been able to survive on its own as a niche player in a crowded market.

The same is true in the opposite direction. Since Daimler Benz took over Chrysler, some of the best looking designs are coming from Auburn Hills, Michigan (Crossfire and the two new 300M series cars). Had it not been for the takeover, there may not be a Chrysler Motor Company at all.

[gttouring]

Understandable points, of course mergers happen and benefit often one side more than both, it is good to see Jag around,Volvo, and Chrysler and the new designs they are coming up with.
It seems that Ford Gobbled up lots of companies not for their benefit but just to catch the market, jaguar benefitted greatly here, did Ford?
I would certainly like to see the brands stand leaner- but every company is over populated with redundanies and multiple brands, even Mighty Toyota with the new 'Scion' line what a move that is, i fail to see how it really is a good move as it is cannabalizing its own Echo sales in California-hmppf. can you make some sense of all this for me- being near detroit (wll closer than i ever will be) what other vehicles share platforms that have been made possible through mergers? and with Ford's global platform cars, and even GM's new sigma platform (?) why not sell the same car model in every market instead of trying to make so many different versions- i.e. the Ill-fated and silly idea Chevy's Malibu MaXX-1st dumb name any one buying this car has nothing fond tosay about Malibu nor the name with its "extreme" notion of maximum- Any one with fond notions of a Malibu are insulted that this is a new version, as well the Impala...
what is the point here, most of the big three seem way off the mark as to claiming new buyers for fear of losing the babyboomers- they will still buy what they want no matter what Buick,Chevy or Pontiac offer...who is in charge that is failing in these categories.Now dodge has the right idea with the new Neon SRT-4.
Where is the Focus Turbo for US markets? and why offer a V6 mustang (it does sell wwell but??)
what do I not see?

[Neil C]

Yes, I do beleive Ford has benefited from Jaguar, very much.

It seems that moves to cannibalize models and offer them in a new package is an effort to reach different markets at low cost. I agree with you that an attempt to repackage Malibu's and Impala's to appeal to Gen X seems silly. Those that loved the original won't like it, and most Gen X'ers don't care a whit about what Malibu and Impala Super Sports were to us, anyway.

I did hear something interesting about the costs to offer different packages. It seems that the new Ford F-150 pickup truck is offering 3 or 4 totally different interior packages. It would seem this would be a foolishly expensive thing to do, but they claim they would have had to develop as much tooling to do the same interior as they do for 3 or 4 totally different varieties. So they are able to offer a different package to a performance truck enthusiast than to a utility truck user, at very little incremental costs. Who knew?

Yes 6 cylinder Mustangs do sell to those that "sport" means more than performance, and to the young who are cost conscious but want something "cool". However, I would jump at a chance to own the new '05 Mustang with a high performance tuned V6 and a sport-touring suspension. The weight penalty and lower fuel efficiency of the V8 is not an asset to a sporty GT type car. The V6 Lincoln LS w/ sport suspension and manual tranny is actually a much better balanced road car than the V8 version.

[RTH]

I can't help thinking after 4 years of the Jaguar F1 project hundreds of millions spent with a damaging negative outcome , they would do better to quit F1 and use the factory for Aston Martin GT and Le Mans racing and a pair of X-Types (homologated with the right mechanical configuration first ) in British & European Saloon car racing.

Spending advertising budget on something a bit nearer to what they sell and something they have a realistic shot at winning in would make a lot more sense and cost a great deal less.

[Neil C]

RTH, I think you are missing something here. First, the Jaguar F1 project is not part of an advertising budget. If it were, you'd be right that the same money spent to advertise would go much further.

Second, I think you're missing the effect they are having outside of GB, particularly in North America. It matters less here that Jaguar is not on top in F1. Most potential Jag buyers in the US don't even know they are in F1, or what F1 is, beyond it is some sort of car racing. An ad or a poster connecting Jaguar technology with the sleek green racing machine in the background is just as effective if that racing car is in the process of winning a race or finishing 15th. Keep in mind, that in the US, Jaguars still have the reputation of being expensive (true) but unreliable (no longer true).

Third, Jaguar sales are way up in recent years. It would be a mistake to attribute that to F1, but something Ford is doing is working.

Finally, believe it or not, there are many people at Ford that are as enthusiastic about motorsport as you and I. They take pride in seeing their efforts pay off, and want to continue Ford's long and successful racing heritage.

If I were running Ford, I'd probably cut Jag from the program too. Then I'd mount a serious effort under the Ford banner, much as they did at Le Mans in the late 60's.

Then the Brits would really have something to complain about!

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Neil C
Third, Jaguar sales are way up in recent years. It would be a mistake to attribute that to F1, but something Ford is doing is working.

Jaguar has recently launched two new (relatively) downmarket products. This is the main reason sales have gone up. The price of the cheapest new Jaguar has halved in the last few years. The price of a decent new Jaguar however has stayed about the same! Sales of these have gone down (I think), but some of their new products are stealling customers - some want a top of the range S-Type rather than the entry XJ.

However with its success of its top models in the JD power survey. And the new Aluminium XJ is superb, a step in the right direction.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Neil C
If I were running Ford, I'd probably cut Jag from the program too. Then I'd mount a serious effort under the Ford banner, much as they did at Le Mans in the late 60's.

Yes, I couldn't agree more.

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Neil C
If I were running Ford, I'd probably cut Jag from the program too. Then I'd mount a serious effort under the Ford banner, much as they did at Le Mans in the late 60's.

They can afford failure under the Jaguar name; Ford would have to be a winner.

[gttouring]

ah but why did they mess with the coming to more frequent succes of Stewart Ford? the cars started doing lovely - didn't Johnny Herbert win one for stewart Ford, they surely could have support them as BMW supports williams and made a much finer entrant to F1 than the Jag disaster

[Neil C]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
They can afford failure under the Jaguar name; Ford would have to be a winner.

I'm not sure why you say this. Jaguar is not a throw-away marque for Ford.

Adam, yes much of Jag's recent sales is attributed to producing less expensive models such as the S-type (stunning looks on a platform shared by other Ford models) and the X series (an entry level Jag but with some welcome standard features such as AWD). No doubt, these entries pull buyers away from the XJ models, but they also offer a competitive product to customers that would have otherwise bought BMW 3 series or similar Mercedes models. In this area, I think Jag/Ford got it right.

Why did Ford take over Stewart Racing rather than just support them? If you've seen the recent documentary on Sir Jackie Stewart, he gives some insight on the fact that they were only too happy to sell outright at that point in their development. That to go further up the ladder would have been beyond the capabilities of Stewart Racing. He attributes the pressures of running the team as one of the reasons Paul became seriously ill. Then, when Jaguar Racing was formed, Ford/Jaguar made a conscious decision to start with a clean sheet of paper rather than develop the Stewart car. A mistake in hindsight, but Neil Ressler felt it was necessary in order to develop a cohesive team around a project that was truely their own. It didn't work out that way, did it?

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by Neil C
I'm not sure why you say this. Jaguar is not a throw-away marque for Ford.

Relative failure for Jaguar doesn't reflect on Ford; I'm pretty sure that success for Jaguar would very quickly have the marketing men trumpeting a 'Ford group'success? Not a 'throwaway marque'? Bean-counters are noted noted for their sentimentality!

[Neil C]

Originally posted by Dave Brand
Relative failure for Jaguar doesn't reflect on Ford; I'm pretty sure that success for Jaguar would very quickly have the marketing men trumpeting a 'Ford group'success? Not a 'throwaway marque'? Bean-counters are noted noted for their sentimentality!

I guess I don't have a clue as to the basis of those statements beyond antipathy towards Ford. My experience with Ford and from what I read in the trade journals leads me to quite different conclusions.