Button Vs Barrichello

[NO1SPECIAL]

Looking at the testing times set so far by the Honda lads, I get the impression that Rubens is already on Button's pace. Considering how far Rubens was behind M$, how does this gibe with Button's statement that there is no one in F1 as good as he? (I can't remember the actual words he used so perhaps someone will correct me on this.) Either way, I would think that failure to significantly outpace Barrichello will be the final nail in the coffin concerning the myth of Button's speed....

What are your thoughts

[Hitech]

There's nothing wrong with Barichello's pace, it's just that at Ferrari he was never operating on a level playing field!
Phil

[NO1SPECIAL]

I'm so tired of statements like these. He had the same car as Shumacher and he could set it up any way he chose - how then did Ferrari fix it so that he was usually considerably slower in practice, qualifying and racing over five seasons? It beggars belief. Let's just face the fact that M$ is better than Rubens.

[Stephen Green]

How do you know they both had the same car, do you work for Ferrari? As for Jenson's speed over his rivals and/or Rubens, why not wait until the racing begins and see then what happens? At the moment there is no way of knowing which driver or which team is going to be the quickest.

[NO1SPECIAL]

Hmmmm....do you really think I work for Ferrari or that comment supposed to be some kind of put-down? I wonder...

You do know that as well as participating in the WDC Ferrari were also involved in the race for the WCC? Does it make sense then that they would give Rubens an inferior car? Even if they only wanted the WDC for Michael, it makes sense to give Rubens the best car they possibly can if he is to beat the other WDC challengers and thus take points off them.

Why not wait until the racing begins you say? Why should I? Is that an order Herr Kommandant? We don't know which team is going to be the best, no, not for certain - nor can we compare teammates with any real accuracy as yet. But we can speculate can't we? Or is there some racing on I'm missing?

[Bononi]

Hey NO1SPECIAL, speculate as much you want, but be prepared for having replies on what you're about, without being offensive.
...Or you will end up talking to the wind.

[BootsOntheSide]

This is a pretty dismal thread so far, more bickering than actual fact. It could easily be that Rubens has done more low-fuel laps, or that Jenson has concentrated more on long-distance running. We really can't tell until the season starts. As for Rubens at Ferrari, don't forget that Constructors Championship success wsn't dependent on Rubens finishing 2nd in the Drivers Championship at any point.

[NO1SPECIAL]

Perhaps my reply was slightly offensive and so I apologise. However, I regard the comment about me not working for Ferrari as slightly offensive itself - and disappointing more so by the fact of its having come from a moderator.

Absolutely I was prepared for replies to my comment - that was the whole point of the thread, though I must admit I did not anticipate that we would be going over the old hoary ground of Ferrari's supposed mistreatment of Rubens.... I should have known better.

And as your esteemed colleague garcon said elsewhere, if we eliminated all the pointless threads there wouldn't be many left.

[NO1SPECIAL]

I guess I should have made the subject clearer in the first post, ie: IF Button fails to outpace Rubens this season will that do great damage to Button's reputation?

[Stephen Green]

The answer to your last question is, in my opinion, yes.

[Suze]

Yes it will....

I'm waiting until the proper racing starts to judge who's better

[jluisfer]

I thinhk that this year Barrichello have to prove that is a great driver.When he was in Ferrari he had the excuse that is the number 2 driver in team,that all the good material went first for Schumacher,etc... Now he had a partner with the same material and we will see who will make better results

[Logrence]

I don't think Button has much of a reputation left - I've got no respect for him after the way he has behaved over the past few years. Someone like Fernando or Montoya you could excuse doing that; at least they have the results and the talent to back it up.

[Dani Filth]

imho . Button is better than Barichello overall ..

[Swiss]

The proof of the pudding will be in qualifying and race results....

[Gt_R]

I don't think it does damage Button's reputation. Quite the opposite, i think it enhances both Ruben's and Schumacher's.

Button have yet to win no doubt, but in a quick car, he has shown an ability to race and to be quick. Rubens has constantly been underrated by people who insist that Ferrari only chooses 2nd class drivers to teammate Michael. Certainly, Rubens isn't in MS class, but he isn't as bad as some try to make out to be. And beating or matching Button is going to prove that.

However, like JPM who experienced it on his move to Mclaren, and Fisichella's move to Renault, Rubens have to understand that he is on a backfoot, in the sense that as Button was in the team so long (the team knows his style), the information when designing the car will be more towards Button's style. RB may need to adapt and work the best to set his car to his liking, but the worry is RB's confidence level and not be affected if Button outpaces him initially.

It will be a good fight.

[QuickSilver]

I hope you're right Gt_R.

I don't have an opinion either way about which one is faster, but I do believe this is one of the best driver pairings out there (in terms of evenly matched drivers). This will be very interesting to watch.

No harm, no foul if there's a small difference between them, however if one vastly outpaces the other it will be food for the forum.

I've always wanted to see Rubens race in a good car without having to play second fiddle to Michael. Rubens is near the end of his career and I think he will be on fire this year. Button is still early in his career, but yet to live up to his promise. Both want it badly. Honda may be due for their first win this year ... and if it happens, which driver will it be? Button has displayed fragility in the past and if Rubens takes the maiden win it could take a toll in Button.

Beyond watching the Rubens/Jenson teammates duel, I really, really, really (that's 3 reallys ) want to see Rubens and Michael go wheel-to-wheel this year. I hope it happens.
-

[jj2728]

[QUOTE=Stephen Green]How do you know they both had the same car, do you work for Ferrari? QUOTE]

Rather snide remark coming from a mod don't you think? I just have to wonder how many people think that is the case, that rubens was given inferior/lesser equipment.....anyhow, back on topic, IMHO this is the year that Button must prove himself and achieve the top step of the podium, should rubens consistently outpace him, then is reputation will almost surely be as damaged as JVs was after his tenure at BAR.

[NO1SPECIAL]

I think Rubens' ability is pretty much a known quantity - good but not great. Button on the other hand is less of a known quantity - he may well possess supreme pace...but he may not too. If I'd had to choose - before the season began -who would be the faster driver, I would have had no hesitation in saying Button. But looking at the testing results so far (yes I know, testing ain't worth jack, blah blah blah...) I'm beginning to think this might be a real close contest

[dcp2685]

I see them as being pretty evenly matched. If Honda is on pace, I'd love to see Barrichello take the championship. he certainly deserves it. Maybe FINALLY this is the year he wins in Brazil. That would be great to see.

As for Barrichello at Ferrari, I seem to remember him mentioning something about the cars always having a touch of oversteer (MS's preference) whereas he prefers to have a touch of understeer.

Either way this is shaping up to potentally be a great season. 23 days.

[enemy-ace]

This is a toss-up IMO. If I were a betting man i wouldn't touch this one. I think initially Button will have the upper hand but Rubens will close the gap pretty quickly. Whether or not he overtakes Button is hard to say. I think Rubens will get more support from the powers that be at Honda than he did with Ferrari.
I think the question of teams having No.1 and No.2 drivers is inherent to F1 teams in general and not just exclusive to Ferrari. Do I think that Michael Schumacher had preferential treatment vs. Rubens at Ferrari? Absolutely! Maybe not in terms of equipment, but in regards to having the ear of the boss and all the variables that entails. Definitely. Calculating that kind of advantage is difficult but it is absolutely an advantage.
Button experienced that kind of disadvantage at Benneton vs. Fisi. I think Honda will be very even-handed in their treatment of the drivers, it should make for an intriguing year long battle.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

How do you know they both had the same car, do you work for Ferrari?

Originally Posted by NO1SPECIAL

I regard the comment about me not working for Ferrari as slightly offensive itself - and disappointing more so by the fact of its having come from a moderator.

Originally Posted by jj2728

Rather snide remark coming from a mod don't you think?

You boys may want to PM each other and try to make nice-nice. Your noise is detracting from an otherwise fun discussion. Just a thought.

[BootsOntheSide]

Considering how rare it is for a driver new to a team to beat an incumbent driver (Alonso did it in 2003, but even then he'd been there as test driver for a year; Kimi was often faster than DC at McLaren in 2002 but had inferior reliability), it would be a big deal if Rubens outscores Jenson. As to whether it's more positive for Rubens or negative for Jenson, I guess Massa's results at Ferrari would be a clue.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by enemy-ace

Do I think that Michael Schumacher had preferential treatment vs. Rubens at Ferrari? Absolutely! Maybe not in terms of equipment ...

... and I'm sure Michael had access to all the development bits and parts before Rubens. Not to detract from Michael because he is one of the all time greats, but with Ferrari's clear #1 and #2 structure, Ruben's career has been played out largely in Michael's shadow.

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

As to whether it's more positive for Rubens or negative for Jenson, I guess Massa's results at Ferrari would be a clue.

Sorry Boots, I didn't quite follow that. Are you thinking how both these Ferrari #2s compare against a benchmark, ie. Michael?

[shambles]

A tough one to predict, they both seem to be two drivers on an even keel. It's a toss up between Grand Prix experience, therein the winning experience Barrichello has - or the Honda familiarity that Jenson has. Both of them are quick drivers, but I think Jenson - is still somewhat of an unknown quantity, I see something there that could be classified as Champion material. Rubens, well - despite playing hor-see to Schumi for the past few years, at times he really stuck it to the German, so there's no doubting his capabilities - but Schumi is eternally a better driver than Rubens, no question.

Whoever wins this inter-team battle, will be seen as a clear Honda #1 in the following years. And it helps them having the benefit of a decent looking mount in 2006 as well. I wouldn't like to predict the outcome, but - I want Jenson to win.