[BTCC] Silverstone, Rounds 19, 20, 21

[medius]

''Tom Onslow-Cole took his second British Touring Car Championship pole position of the year as the Arena Ford squad dominated qualifying at Silverstone this afternoon.''

Pos Driver Car Time Gap
1. Tom Onslow-Cole Ford 59.659s
2. Tom Chilton Ford 59.881s + 0.222s
3. Alex MacDowall Chevrolet 1m00.354s + 0.695s
4. Jason Plato Chevrolet 1m00.491s + 0.832s
5. Matt Neal Honda 1m00.528s + 0.869s
6. Andrew Jordan Vauxhall 1m00.636s + 0.977s
7. Paul O'Neill Honda 1m00.661s + 1.002s
8. Rob Collard BMW 1m00.662s + 1.003s
9. James Nash Vauxhall 1m00.863s + 1.204s
10. Gordon Shedden Honda 1m00.922s + 1.263s
11. Steven Kane BMW 1m01.010s + 1.351s
12. Tom Boardman SEAT 1m01.038s + 1.379s
13. Mat Jackson BMW 1m01.191s + 1.532s
14. David Pinkney Vauxhall 1m01.221s + 1.562s
15. John George Honda 1m01.352s + 1.693s
16. Andy Neate BMW 1m01.590s + 1.931s
17. Lea Wood Honda 1m02.056s + 2.397s
18. Arthur Forster BMW 1m02.220s + 2.561s
19. Shaun Hollamby Volkswagen 1m02.369s + 2.710s
20. Philip Glew SEAT

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86044

Contrary to my Predictions competition entry, I expect the two Fords to run off into the distance, then lots of Plato moaning.

[medius]

Hmmm, not so sure now about them running into the distance, they've had a boost restriction AND an inlet reduction.

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=5153

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by medius

I expect the two Fords to run off into the distance, then lots of Plato moaning.

Agreed, Plato seems to have got his way again by complaining about anyone else's performance advantage.

He seems to forget that a lot of the BTCC's appeal is the difference in performance characteristics between cars. At different stages of the season, certain cars will perform better than others - unless one car is obviously dominant at all circuits (a la the Audi 4WD) then look at the necessary adjustments after the season finishes.

As recently as Snetterton, the Cruze had a 1/3 of a second advantage over the rest of the field, does Plato feel the Cruze needed a performance reduction between qualifying and race day?!

[thebullet]

It is beyond a joke! why does he feel the need along with others to complain? they chose not to run that engine! and lets be honest the cruze isn't slow. And he said in Snetterton 5 car lengths down the straight? That wasn't 5 car lengths! It wasn't like the fords ran off into the distance. Really annoying me now!

[gregc]

This is getting ridiculous.

There's no suggestion I've read apart from people on here and the BTCC forum saying "I bet Plato's had a whinge" that anyone has complained.

Even Mike Earle has accepted that the performance differential is too much:

Originally Posted by Mike

However, given the disparity between our qualifying performance today and the rest of the field and bearing in mind the fact that we are still on a learning curve with the Calor powered car, I fully understand TOCA's view point.

We'll take it on the chin and continue to do the best job we can and should these new restrictions impede our cars performance as severely as we believe they will, then hopefully TOCA will look at reversing some of their decisions.

And as for saying that Plato, or anyone else, "chose not to run" that engine - sorry, no. Arena got a dispensation to run LPG with a turbo. Which is fine in itself, but it needs to have it's performance equalised with the others. Being 4 or 5 mph faster than anyone else in a straight line and half a second a lap quicker in qualifying, because you bolted a turbo on is not on.

If the restrictions turn out to be too harsh I'm confident Gow will take the necessary action.

Can't believe I'm sitting here defending Plato, mind...

[Sodemo]

Arena should be bargaining with other chips.

They should say, ok, we will take the lower horsepower, if you let us run say 5-10kg lighter?

After all, where the Focus' suffers is in the corners, so any weight they can shed would be a good thing.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by gregc

There's no suggestion I've read apart from people on here and the BTCC forum saying "I bet Plato's had a whinge" that anyone has complained.

Plato was the first person to question the Focus on camera so now everyone thinks it's all down to him whinging, despite the fact that several teams and other drivers has also questioned the performance of the Ford. The difference is they have done it privately or not been as widely reported.

Can't believe I'm sitting here defending Plato, mind...

[Icebaby]

They can only peg the Focus back 5 times in a year, the restrictor size from 37 to 36 didn't make much difference at Snetterton and proberbly wont at Silverstone such is their advantage. I think Arena have simply invested well and built a great car within the regs allowed, bit like redbull in F1 instead of teams moaning about it they should be trying to move their perfromance closer.

Good to see Honda having a go with a new engine for Neal but I fail to see why he should get this over Shedden who is looking the stronger driver.

[safc_fan89]

Slightly different from F1. The Red Bull meets the regulations. I have always got the impression from touring cars that different engine specs are meant to be equivalent, otherwise what's the point in entering, as you can't just gain 7 tenths by improving the chassis. The Ford STILL has a massive advantage, and it's not fair, makes things a joke if their engine is meant to be equivalent. They haven't been clever and produced something brilliant, they have just put something in their car which gives them an unfair advantage, which presumably the organisers didn't see coming.

Tom Chilton can say what he likes about the car accelerating out of a corner much better than the others, but I saw with my own eyes in that race Onslow-Cole blasting back past Plato with ease, after Plato had got a better run through the corner. They don't have a brilliant all-round car, they just have a more powerful engine.

Depends what you want to see from touring cars, I guess, as to your opinion on it. If you can get away with having a more powerful engine, why stop at what Ford are doing?

[Craner Curves]

I know he's got a valid point, but I'm bored of Plato whinging now. Just get on with it.

Classic Matt Neal in race one -stick him in the pack and all hell breaks loose. Kane's move on him at Brooklands was a legitimate touring car move, late breaking and a bit of side on rubbing. Then Neal rams Kane up the back at the next corner, then does it again later on. He was the first to moan when Collard did it to him at Snetterton.

Nice to see MacDowall not afraid to mix it with Plato as well, that was pleasing.

Confused by the apparant Team Aon orders, although we all know who pays the bills there.

[touringlegend]

I was sure TOC brings a budget to the team, but maybe it's a smaller budget with a few clauses in there!

[Kidzer]

I'm sure he might, but one of the Vice-Directors of AON Group is a chap called Grahame Chilton, who is Tom's father

Edit: Oh, look who have just come together at T1...

[ghinzani]

Onslow-cole would be much nearer to Plato if they had allowed him to win all 3 as he blatantly deserved. If he misses out the VChampionship by the difference between two 1st/2nd places then they may have egg on their faces.

[Craner Curves]

Shows how much better a driver Tom O-C is doesn't it. You could clearly see he was cheesed off after race 2 and not because of the Collard incident.

[touringlegend]

Don't forget AON's Race 2 swap about allowed Collard to ultimately get 2nd.

He'd be around 6 behind Plato if he'd won the earlier two races.

[Sodemo]

Got back from Silverstone a few hours ago.

Overall a good day's racing. We watched from the Luffield grandstand. Thought that most series are really struggling badly for grid numbers, in fact its ironic really that the Porsches are looking quite strong now as a year or so ago they were turning up with a 15 car grid.

A lot of cars were overtaking under yellow flags in the 2nd porsche race, nothing seemed to happen though.

[terence]

I watched quite a bit of this event on TV,I have to admit to being apalled at some of the driving standards,lots of cars blatantly going 'four off' in ALL races. If I were the Clerk at this meeting,I think I would have disqualified most of the Junior Ginetta drivers,especialy the moron who deliberately leant on any one who had the cheek to try and take a] the lead &b] another place from him!! I think it was Austin,but whoever it was should have his license torn up and thrown away! Never seen such awful behavior. Dangerous driving as was displayed was also accompanied by deliberately driving four off on four consecutive corners. If this driver should read this forum,sorry matey but that is NOT HOW ITS DONE!. Dont bother trying to drive like your in BTCC,if this is how anyone wants drive best start banger racing.!

[JimW]

It was a further collision under safety car conditions which caused the red flag end to the final Junior race. I wonder how late the Clerks were kept dealing with that one?

Do they have a naughty step available?

Regards

Jim

[robm]

I agree with regard to the use of the run off areas etc. Included in a ARDS test now to gain a national B race licence, the instructional DVD includes a specific reference to the rule governing this, and as ARDS examiners we are encouraged to explain the rule and what happens I.E. penalties if it is ignored. Therefore, like all rules and regs what we need is consistency.

14.5.

Drivers must use the track at all times. For the
avoidance of doubt:
(a) the white lines defining the track edges are
considered to be part of the track but the kerbs
are not, and;
(b) a driver will be judged to have left the track if no
part of the car remains in contact with the track.
(c) Should a car leave the track for any reason and
without prejudice to (d) below, the driver may
rejoin. However, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any advantage.
(d) Repetition of serious mistakes or the appearance
of a lack of control over the car (such as leaving
the track) will be reported to the Clerk of Course
and may entail the imposition of penalties up to
and including the exclusion of any driver

concerned.

The BTCC is obviusly run to different rules...........

[Icebaby]

The Ginetta driver who moved drivers over to the pitwall and later decided to cause the red flag Im sure was Swanwick.

Aon's team tactics backfired as Chilton gained little on his team mate and all they did was compromise Tom OC from having a shot at the title. They need to re-evalute this.

Paul O'Neill was stunning as usual, ITV coverage dissapointing as Even Louise Goodman struggled to find any words to say at times. Bring back Steve Rider.

[adstubbs]

Use of the run-off at Copse was staggering - from the onboards Plato was making no attempt to keep within the track limits. A black-and white flaf for driving standards does nothing; if they repeatedly commit the same offence it's black flag time. Of course, if the run off wasn't tarmac but a nice big gravel trap or grass, then they wouldn't be using it. Unless you actively penalise drivers they will keep doing it, and the problem is that it filters down to lower levels. On the subject of driving standards, Swanwick's repeated attempts to edge rivals towards pitwall to stop them getting a run out of Woodcote and the crash he caused at Copse were terrible - never mind throwing the rulebook at him, an entire bookcase would be more appropriate.

[AndyS]

It's that theme of concrete run off area's that keeps rearing it's head in relation to driving standards on a more and more regular basis.

[redshoes]

During the Clio race the tarmac run-off at Copse because the default racing line for all but a couple of cars. During the post-race interview one of the drivers (Paul Rivett?) made the comment that he had initially avoided the wide line as all drivers had been told after qualifying that using it was not acceptable but after the first few laps it was clear that everyone was doing it. The stewards seem to be very inconsistent in how and when the rule is applied, although in this case clearly disqualifying or giving a time penalty to every driver would be impractical.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by redshoes

During the Clio race the tarmac run-off at Copse because the default racing line for all but a couple of cars. During the post-race interview one of the drivers (Paul Rivett?) made the comment that he had initially avoided the wide line as all drivers had been told after qualifying that using it was not acceptable but after the first few laps it was clear that everyone was doing it. The stewards seem to be very inconsistent in how and when the rule is applied, although in this case clearly disqualifying or giving a time penalty to every driver would be impractical.

Having a load of broken glass, spikes, spinning blades, aligator pit there would stop them running wide. Or they could just go back to having gravel like they should do anyway.

[trebor901]

put back the damn gravel traps then they wouldnt run wide we have Bernie the dwarf and FIA to blame for the stupid run off areas