New FIA Formula Two series for 2009!!

[WSR Fan]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...sc_250608.aspx

Originally Posted by FIA

The FIA will invite tenders for a new feeder series for Formula One. This championship, called Formula Two, would be launched in 2009 and used as an inexpensive platform to develop emerging driver talent for Formula One. It is hoped this can be achieved within a budget of around €200,000 a car per season.

Right, in terms of European single-seater championships, we've already got GP2, World Series, International Formula Master, F3 Euroseries, Euroseries 3000, Formula BMW Europe and Formula Renault Eurocup, not to mention the various national F3 series, so the question is do we really need another one? (especially in the current climate of economic uncertainty).

[Lam Pak]

can you make a quality championship for 2M HKD...on the floor

[Francis Albert]

I think Autosport sums things up quite well in this article:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68628

[johntt]

Not April 1st is it?

Seriously though, if something was to be branded Formula 2 I would open up the chassis and engines to different suppliers in Gp2 and call that Formula 2.

I reckon that if such a championship as leid out by the FIA ever came to be then it would probably sit alongside Renault World Series/Euroseries F3000, higher than F3 but slighly below Gp2, but possible to go straight from RWS/F3000 to F1.

[JohnMiller]

If you ran Formula Fords at GPs it would cost far more than that!

[the sniper]

I could not believe this was true when I saw it on Autosport, I am simply lost for words... (until I get over the shock, then I will probably have plenty to say )

[duke_toaster]

Crazy idea, unless they accidently used the Euro sign instead of a good old £.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Crazy idea, unless they accidently used the Euro sign instead of a good old £.

200k pounds = less than 300k euros. Which is still less than a reasonable F3 budget. I really cannot see how they can do a meaningful 'ladder' formula for 200k euros per car per year, unless it's one-make spec-everything with truly epic rules stability to defray initial costs, with some overall commercial sponsor(s) holding most of the rights to the series, everything run on an arrive'n'drive basis by a common pool of mechanics and engineers, and 200k being a token budget to get a few individual drivers' sponsors onto the wing endplates. Imagine Palmer Audi with some kind of big sugar daddy part-sponsoring everything.

I have a feeling this 'F2' will be something awful, like that Formula Master snoozeathon that accompanies the WTCC. You're not going to run GP2/A1GP/World Series Renault-class cars for that kind of money.

[OJB]

Doesn't this smack of an FIA rival to the Ecclestone-backed GP2??

It would make more sense to try and lower the costs of GP2/F3 etc then introduce a championship that's supposed to be above these but at a fraction of the cost. I normally applaud a new series but it is getting far too crowded now with F3/GP2/WSR et al.

Would probably work better as a winter series maybe.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by OJB

Would probably work better as a winter series maybe.

Just like A1GP and GP2 Asia? ;P

Even that market's too crowded.

Still, it's one more opportunity for up-and-coming drivers to be career-managed away from racing against each other until they get to F1... after all, anyone can be a hero if there's only one class driver in each series ;P

[ss_collins]

well its a better name

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Pete Fenelon

200k pounds = less than 300k euros. Which is still less than a reasonable F3 budget. I really cannot see how they can do a meaningful 'ladder' formula for 200k euros per car per year, unless it's one-make spec-everything with truly epic rules stability to defray initial costs, with some overall commercial sponsor(s) holding most of the rights to the series, everything run on an arrive'n'drive basis by a common pool of mechanics and engineers, and 200k being a token budget to get a few individual drivers' sponsors onto the wing endplates. Imagine Palmer Audi with some kind of big sugar daddy part-sponsoring everything.

Thats the form I think it would take (should it ever comes into existence). Kind of like FPA but on a European scale and with bigger/more powerful cars.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by OJB

Doesn't this smack of an FIA rival to the Ecclestone-backed GP2??

I get the impression this is all part of the Max vs Bernie war.

[Olive]

Instinct says it will not happen - it's just politicking.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by johntt

Thats the form I think it would take (should it ever comes into existence). Kind of like FPA but on a European scale and with bigger/more powerful cars.

I hope it isn't.

(A) Jonathan Palmer couldn't make it work at international level, and he's very sharp on the marketing front.

(B) Arrive-and-drive formula gives teams nowhere to learn. Where do engineers and managers learn their trade?

Any meaningful formula that's intended to be 'one below F1' must, at a bare minimum, be a competition between proper teams. I don't want some GLC sports day where everything's equalised and homogenised. Racing is about more than drivers.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Pete Fenelon

I hope it isn't.

(A) Jonathan Palmer couldn't make it work at international level, and he's very sharp on the marketing front.

(B) Arrive-and-drive formula gives teams nowhere to learn. Where do engineers and managers learn their trade?

Any meaningful formula that's intended to be 'one below F1' must, at a bare minimum, be a competition between proper teams. I don't want some GLC sports day where everything's equalised and homogenised. Racing is about more than drivers.

True. The only other way I can see it happening is as another spec series () that would sit alongside Renault World Series and Euroseries F3000.

[OJB]

Thing is, most lower formulas are geared towards allowing young drivers a shot at F1. Yet there aren't enough F1 seats now to make the most of it, so positioning another series just below won't help.

On top of that, the more similar series' there are, the less credible all of them will be because there will be question marks over which is the most competitive. If you stretch it over three series (F2, GP2 and WSR), then there probably isn't a good way of telling which of these champions is best - especially if the tight budget constraints means the cars probably won't be as spectacular or as fast as GP2 or WSR...

It is a very narrow opening right at the top in F1. All this means is that there are even more drivers battling for just 20 seats and with the FIA upping the cost of entry, I see that number falling before it rises. It's madness to me!

As someone mentioned though, I do prefer the name :P

[Shadow]

In my opinion it's just the political war between FIA and FOCA, there's no reason to create it!

GP2 exist and works well, nice show, good budget, few sponsor in my opinion for a very stable championship with television, its weak point is maybe technical competition, one-spec series should be good for budget reduction... (not there maybe?)
F3 exist and wave up and down mainly since always, quite expensive for the performance, but technically the most attractive championship, a couple of big sponsor named Mercedes and Audi (upps Volkswagen) that feed budget and competition.

And now, where they want to place F2? the logical answer is taking the place of GP2, for instance FIA website doesn't support that much this series, no rules, no info, maybe a clue...
But!!! how can you compete against GP2 with a 200K euro budget?!?! It's really a FFord! or a micro-super-extra one-spec car with road car parts!
You can maybe say the name will give reputation, but how can driver step up from F3 to F2? the car will be obviosly slower, there's no engine in the world able to run a season at this price (except a road car) with a reasonable performance!
and there's no easy money to finace the token... remember GP2 sponsoring...

... or maybe they will change F1 name to F4... F2 then F3, (GP2), then F4

[Mekola]

Maybe it's just a keyboard thing: Press F1 for help.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Shadow

You can maybe say the name will give reputation, but how can driver step up from F3 to F2? the car will be obviosly slower, there's no engine in the world able to run a season at this price (except a road car) with a reasonable performance!
and there's no easy money to finace the token... remember GP2 sponsoring...

... or maybe they will change F1 name to F4... F2 then F3, (GP2), then F4

Grin. Actually, a naughty thought came to me. Maybe Max wants to raise http://www.australianformula2.asn.au/
Australian F2 onto the world stage

[josvandeperre]

How much does it cost to run A1GP ?

Is there not a ready made F2 car there - what a coincidence : its a Ferrari

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by josvandeperre

How much does it cost to run A1GP ?

Is there not a ready made F2 car there - what a coincidence : its a Ferrari

Apparently around $5m/year (which surprised me, but remember how weak the dollar is - call it €3m). Which is a long way from €200k.

That makes A1GP about 2-3x as expensive as GP2, which I suppose does feel about right given the travel costs etc and the number of one-car operations. Maybe A1GP is a bit cheaper if you get one team running two franchises.

[Go_For_Pole]

The price depends on the country actually

[Asa]

This Formula Two thing is utter nonsense. It is pure political stuff.

[Pete Fenelon]

Originally Posted by Asa

This Formula Two thing is utter nonsense. It is pure political stuff.

It certainly doesn't stand up to any reasoned analysis. Or the debate here