[LM24] Peugeot/Toyota/Porsche LMP1 Debuts

[Speedblood]

Something I've been thinking since Le Mans weekend, it's been 7 years since Peugeot emerged as the first manufacturer to take on Audi at the head of the LMP1 field and since then we've had 2 more join in.

In peoples opinion, who do they think made the most impressive LMP1 debut at Le Mans? Peugeot 2007, Toyota 2012 and Porsche 2014. Whether it was the approach they took, the challenge they presented, the final result, the performance they showed etc, just who do you feel impressed you and why.

Thoughts?

[dbagtbag]

My personal thoughts I think Peugeot's debut was most impressive. They came the first year and blew Audi away in qualifying. They lasted the entire 24h and came in 2nd despite rear spindle failures that caused it to pit for a long time.

[Deleted]

Yup... Pug easily. On track and off track. I think of all of them they came with the mindset of wanting success immediately (much like Nissan seems)

Technically speaking Aston Martin must also be counted in, just because they were running not their own chassis and were underfunded and underperforming doesn't mean they weren't factory entry.

[isynge]

Porsche for me, in that they confounded expectations so thoroughly. I didn't expect them to be running come sundown, let alone be in with a shot at victory with a few hours to go.

Toyota too over achieved, especially given the failure to show at Spa, but again, both being out relatively early lessened the impact.

Peugeot did pretty much what I expected them to. Arrived, went quite quickly, but never looked like winning it, even if Audi did its level best to lose it all by itself in 2007. So an impressive performance, but not necessarily all that compellingly memorable. Wasn't hugely impressed by Bourdais' stunt of parking up before the finishing line for the last period of the race either.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Obviously Peugeot. Everyone, especially Radio Audi now known as Radio Nissan predicted they wouldn't last the night yet they finished 2nd in one of the crazier Le Mans in recent memory.

They also brought more promotion than others and really set the bar for top quality drivers in LMP1.

[carbon_titanium]

to me the most impressive debut was the toyota, best top speed and acceleration than audi in 2012, and #8 was able to catch and overtake the leading audi during the race, showing an impressive overall performance already at debut. Of course, consumes and reliability were poor.
The worst debut to me is for porsche, slower than audi and toyota all the race long and reliability issues for both cars

[JoestForEver]

Though maybe a bit outdated, but the 1999 debut for R8R and R8C was impressive for me. First ever time to Le Sarthe, leading at one time, and a solid podium finish against titans from the GTP field.
Well as for the trio, Peugeot is definitely doing a better job than the others IMO.

[J Jay]

Peugeot, no question. I suppose Porsche & Toyota suffer in comparison for not being the first, but from what I've been told watching the 908 blow the R10 out of the water was a real eye-opener, especially when most people thought Audi were so much faster because they were the only factory entrant.

It was the first time people were made aware of Audi's weaknesses, both concerning the car - specifically the powertrain (Peugeot kept this advantage throughout their time in LMP1) and Audi's driver lineup at the time (which Audi notably upped their game on; surely it triggered the end for Premat/Luhr/Werner/Biela and accelerated the Young Driver program).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by carbon_titanium

to me the most impressive debut was the toyota, best top speed and acceleration than audi in 2012, and #8 was able to catch and overtake the leading audi during the race, showing an impressive overall performance already at debut. Of course, consumes and reliability were poor.
The worst debut to me is for porsche, slower than audi and toyota all the race long and reliability issues for both cars

The #8 was crashed into, taking them out of contention. The #7 crashed into the deltawing and could have contributed. Itd be interesting to see how far the #8 would have went. I think it would have fought or held the lead for at least a couple more hours. But Peugeot's speed was definitely the most impressive.

[isynge]

Intrigued by those impressed by Peugeot's speed in 2007. Sure they raced off the first couple of laps and won the race to the first hour, but by early evening it was pretty clear they weren't nearly fast enough.

It's also worth looking at how close some of the privateers like Pescarolo were able to run Peugeot in the LMS during 2007 - they were fast, and in some case it almost seemed unfair (thinking here about how they were able to blast away from the opposition at Spa post FCYs) but not totally invincible.

[Articus]

In 2007 Peugeot had to turn down the engines because they were not going to last 24 hours. That explains the pace drop-off.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Peugeot,Toyota, porsche

[Richard117]

For me Toyota, because it wasn't in their planning to race in 2012. But they were asked to because Peugeot quit. Le Mans was their first race and they had the speed from the first moment.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Richard117

For me Toyota, because it wasn't in their planning to race in 2012. But they were asked to because Peugeot quit. Le Mans was their first race and they had the speed from the first moment.

Was that really the case? I didn't know that haha. That brings them up a notch in my books

[Acid09]

Peugeot for sure. They came in with no half-measures aside from the fact that they had no 3rd car the first year around.

Everything was top notch. Great car, great drivers, lots of promo. Peugeot is still the only team to have an active F1 driver race at Le Mans in recent years.

They elevated the LMP1 battle to a whole new level.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Everything was top notch. Great car, great drivers, lots of promo. Peugeot is still the only team to have an active F1 driver race at Le Mans in recent years.

Everything? In the first years they had some major tactical screwups though. Something Toyota has managed to avoid, probably thanks to Oreca's involvement.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Richard117

For me Toyota, because it wasn't in their planning to race in 2012. But they were asked to because Peugeot quit. Le Mans was their first race and they had the speed from the first moment.

iirc the very original plan before Case: Peugeot was to race at LM 2012 but possibly with one car only and then do some WEC rounds before full season in 2013.

But in any case, LM 2012 became the debut race after they were forced so skip Spa.

[Deleted]

That skipping of Spa was fairly ridiculous no matter how you look at Toyota being the newcomers... they only had one working chassis at that point, which they had wrecked in testing anyway. I guess it was the first true reflection of how underfunded the whole opertation was, which at the time really shocked me (biggest manufacturer in the world giving pennies for it's racing department)

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chiana

That skipping of Spa was fairly ridiculous no matter how you look at Toyota being the newcomers... they only had one working chassis at that point, which they had wrecked in testing anyway. I guess it was the first true reflection of how underfunded the whole opertation was, which at the time really shocked me (biggest manufacturer in the world giving pennies for it's racing department)

There was only couple of months between their decision to ante up the program and Spa. It was much more ridiculous that still in last year they had trouble fielding the 2nd car.

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by deggis

iirc the very original plan before Case: Peugeot was to race at LM 2012 but possibly with one car only and then do some WEC rounds before full season in 2013.

But in any case, LM 2012 became the debut race after they were forced so skip Spa.

About peugeot, nothing has been ever confirmed but rumors were that peugeot was going to use only one official 908HY4 full season with a second one for le mans and european races. The second 908 was going to be an hybridless old 2011 chassis in the hands of a supported private team (rumored signatech) and with a new main sponsor (rumored redbull).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

That skipping of Spa was fairly ridiculous no matter how you look at Toyota being the newcomers... they only had one working chassis at that point, which they had wrecked in testing anyway. I guess it was the first true reflection of how underfunded the whole opertation was, which at the time really shocked me (biggest manufacturer in the world giving pennies for it's racing department)

How many times does this subject come up? They were only going to run Le Mans and maybe one other race in addition to Fuji in 2012. 2013 was going to be their first full season with one car and two at select rounds. They stepped up because Peugeot dropped out. 2014 was what they were aiming at as a full on. Tmg probably has a low budget because Akio Toyoda and the members of current Toyota in Japan dont want frivolous spending like F1 which was under some bad direction for most of its life. Results may swerve them to give more. Vasselon stated the budget was increased from last year. If you think about it, perhaps 2013 was the real first year for Toyota.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by TF110

How many times does this subject come up? They were only going to run Le Mans and maybe one other race in addition to Fuji in 2012. 2013 was going to be their first full season with one car and two at select rounds. They stepped up because Peugeot dropped out. 2014 was what they were aiming at as a full on. Tmg probably has a low budget because Akio Toyoda and the members of current Toyota in Japan dont want frivolous spending like F1 which was under some bad direction for most of its life. Results may swerve them to give more. Vasselon stated the budget was increased from last year. If you think about it, perhaps 2013 was the real first year for Toyota.

Yeah. While I hear they are spending loads of cash on NASCAR... Wrong series to invest in Toyota

[Articus]

Toyota ought to develop a customer P2 car that could run in both Tudor and WEC.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by dbagtbag

Yeah. While I hear they are spending loads of cash on NASCAR... Wrong series to invest in Toyota

Thats probably Toyota N.A. with TRD vs. TMG and a little help from Japan. Id like there to be more TMC monet towards TMG, thatd be great.