Star (s) of the Midlands

[Sheila M]

First of all, congratulations to Peter Daly on winning the championship in fine style - well deserved.

Congratulations also to the whole grid of Star of the Midlands who raced at Mallory yesterday. The black and yellow quartered flags came out on the startline, the hands went up and by the time they reached Post 1 they were travelling at a very much reduced speed. Well done all of you.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of the Super Coupes.

When their turn came to be shown the black and yellow quartered flag, some drivers did slow down a little but there were a notable few who apparently hadn't even seen it and were still racing (indeed OVERTAKING) into Gerrards. I am not sure what penalties the Clerk of the Course imposed but I sincerely hope they were severe. After all the talk about drivers obeying flag signals on this forum recently you'd think that something would sink in. Super Coupe drivers, PLEASE remember - the flag signals are there for a reason - usually concerning safety (yours, other drivers, marshals).

The Blue Book states specific penalties for failure to obey a flag signal. If you are unsure what these penalties are then I suggest you read it and more importantly abide by what it says. Contrary to popular belief the Blue Book is not just a convenient way of keeping your new Licence flat at the beginning of each year. It is meant to be read and learned from. May I suggest that you all do just that before you race again. Some of the driving standards I saw yesterday were disgraceful and spoilt (for me anyway) what could otherwise have been a great race.

[JR Ewing]

Were the FFords as entertaining as usual in their races?

[brickkicker]

Congratulations also to the whole grid of Star of the Midlands who raced at Mallory yesterday. The black and yellow quartered flags came out on the startline, the hands went up and by the time they reached Post 1 they were travelling at a very much reduced speed. Well done all of you.

Just a shame the pit crews didnt know what it meant. When it came out a group ran over and asked what it it meant

[Richard Sneader]

Delta as much as i agree with what you say about drivers and flag signals. It does not matter what the blue book states about penalties, it is upto the individual CoC as to what he does. It does seem the higher the race categorie is the less the punishment as money seems to talk( I do not mean backhanders before someone suggest it).
RS

[stroller]

I think rzsio396 is right. It seems to me that the further up the "tree" the event, C of C's are reluctant to dish out to severe penalties because they have it in the back of their minds that the better financed drivers can afford to use clever dick legals to check that all the "i's" have been dotted and "t's" have been crossed in order to get any penalty rescinded.

The poor clubmans driver is more likely to grimace and bear it!!

[Malc's]

I would like to add my voice to that of delta25, by the time the SOM reached us on post 5 not only had the lead driver slowed even further but moved off the racing line to give the marshals working at post 6 even more room, thank you all.

I have also heard a rumour that the Black n Yellow is to be withdrawn from service because it is ineffective, well perhaps more clubs should use it and drivers should learn what it is for. If it is withdrawn then that can only mean more reds and longer days then less marshals, need I go on.

The attitude of one clerk I spoke to does not help either, he said because it is not in the SR's then they cannot use it, surely because it is in the blue book it does not have to be in the SR's or do the SR's also stipulate which flags will be used, you know the ones yellow, green, blue red etc :confused:

[JohnMiller]

The battenburg flag seems great to me as long as everyone knows the rules. No stoppages mean better racing and better timetable discipline.
The only problem I've had in the past was when people didn't know the rules and I was following a driver who drove round to the start line at 50 mph when the pack had all booted it out of the hairpin. We must have lost about 10 seconds on the pack and I nearly pulled the steering wheel off in frustration!
I thought it worked very well yesterday after Steve St Clair's brush with the wall on the back straight.

[edmse]

I have always thought the quatered flag is a good idea. It has been around for around 6 years now and so there is no excuse for not reacting correctly to it.

Thanks to all the Marshals and Officials for still making Mallory the friendly circuit.

Cheers,

Ed Moore

[Sheila M]

Ed, thanks for your comments. However, perhaps you can answer me a quick question - as an instructor (I am assuming here that you do still instruct?) what do you tell your novice drivers about obeying flag signals? Is there any way instructors can assist here in reminding new drivers of their responsibilities?

[Alan Crook]

Well done to Ed on winning and to Peter tying up the championship (Peter still has not won a race at Mallory!!!).

As well as all drivers learning flag signals we as marshals need to ensure that all marshals understand the black and yellow, on numerous occassions when the black and yellows have been used it has not come out on all posts around the circuit. At times this is due to lack of marshals or the use of inexperienced marshals, when there is only one flag marshal on post it is difficult at some posts to look both ways at once.

Where the black and yellow work well I believe they are of great use especially when short of marshals to move cars.

[Sheila M]

Alan, surely the flag signals are explained at briefings - both drivers' and marshals'? Perhaps we need to tighten up on what is said (and by whom) at briefings?

[Chigley]

Originally posted by delta25
Alan, surely the flag signals are explained at briefings - both drivers' and marshals'? Perhaps we need to tighten up on what is said (and by whom) at briefings?

When's the last time you went to a briefing? You're lucky if you are reminded that FIA flag signals are being used at an FIA meeting.
The last time I had a detailed briefing on national flags was at this years training session, flaggies are assumed (quite rightly) that they know what they are doing, apart from "FIA make it up on the day" variants. The problem is when the thin orange line is so stretched that incident and course marshals get roped into flagging when maybe they have only a basic idea of what to do.

[edmse]

Originally posted by delta25
Ed, thanks for your comments. However, perhaps you can answer me a quick question - as an instructor (I am assuming here that you do still instruct?) what do you tell your novice drivers about obeying flag signals? Is there any way instructors can assist here in reminding new drivers of their responsibilities?

That is a tricky one. I think it is totally unacceptable to miss flags. Of course anyone can make the odd mistake, but some people seem to be in a world of their own sometimes and pay no attention to the safety of driver's in cars that are stranded or of the marshals attending incidents.

When teaching new drivers, I look for general awareness and take a very dim view if flags are missed. Perhaps something could be built into the ARDS test, where drivers have to pick out flags being waved and tell their Instructor when they have seen them - this way the Instuctor could judge whether the driver is reading the flag signals quickly enough.

That is the best suggestion I can think of at the moment. Hope it provides some food for thought and yes I still instruct - these days mostly for car manufacturers. I also run my track day, driver training and corporate events business!

[edmse]

Oh and by the way I have sustained a broken leg and a chipped elbow from shunts under waved yellows. Both times I was stationary, once in a broken down car about to climb out!

So I am always very angry when I see people either ignoring or missing flag signals!

[stroller]

Believe me. in the past, I have attended an incident where the driver had a photocopied sheet stuck to the dashboard with the flag signals and their meanings printed on it!!!!

[Malc's]

stroller over the years I have seen a few of the flag reminder sheets stuck to various bits of car. always worries me when they have a map of the circuit too....

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Chigley
When's the last time you went to a briefing?

Full briefing was held at Mallory a couple of weeks ago when we had the Pick Up Trucks. Donington usually have an observers briefing every meeting. When I do sprints at Curborough I attend the marshals' briefing in a more senior capacity.

Ed, thanks for your comments. Perhaps in your capacity as an instructor you could do what you can to get the ARDS people to place greater emphasis on the powers that Clerks have for failure to obey flag signals. I wish other drivers were as sensible as you are!

Regards

Sheila

[Sheila M]

Originally posted by Chigley
When's the last time you went to a briefing?

Full briefing was held at Mallory a couple of weeks ago when we had the Pick Up Trucks. Donington usually have an observers briefing every meeting. When I do sprints at Curborough I attend the marshals' briefing in a more senior capacity.

Ed, thanks for your comments. Perhaps in your capacity as an instructor you could do what you can to get the ARDS people to place greater emphasis on the powers that Clerks have for failure to obey flag signals. I wish other drivers were as sensible as you are!

Regards

Sheila

[Alan Crook]

Delta 25, I was at the pick up meeting and attended the briefing but I still saw a waved yellow out for a slow car rather than a white. I would hope that at least the observer from that post attended the briefing if not the flag marshals as well.

[JustinDawkins]

Dear All,

I am glad that you thought we were "safe", the black and yellow is a flag we are used to now, and I think it works very well indeed, after all its just an invisible pace car!

Scraping it is not a good idea, it alows the race to keep going, rather than a restart.

I hope we kept you well entertained!

[Alan Crook]

I find it strange that on this thread three drivers have all said they think the black and yellow is a good idea yet the MSA is considering dropping it from next year.I wonder if this is the general view of drivers and if the MSA will listen???

Yes Justin you all kept us well entertained more of the same next time please.

[stroller]

Is one of the problems, the generally held practice of waiting for the leader to cross the start/finish line before showing the the flag ( is the the "official" way of doing it?)

Surely if the flag was shown at any time & repeated around the circuit (both directions as per Red flgs), it should have the effect of neutralising the race more effectively not matter where the leader was.

Is this what happens in CART/IRL events. I know in NASCAR it is shown at the start/finish, which sometimes leads to some unsightly "dash to the line" tactics to gain better track position.

[Paul Newns]

Yes, the correct way is to display the flag from the startline and then in race direction as the leader approachs a flag point. This should have the effect of forming a crocodile quicker than sending it in both directions simultaneously, the leader is travelling at 50 mph and the pack considerably faster for at least part of the lap. With a red you want everyone to slow ASAP wherever they are and proceed to the start line and stop.

I have argued before that the black & yellow is a good idea and only needs the drivers to properly recognise it and act accordingly for it to be effective. If it is dropped next year I shall be sorry to see it go; I think we'll have many more race stoppages because marshals seem reluctant to go trackside unless things are neutralised - but then if drivers obeyed waved yellows perhaps we would be more confident of going out. I remember working on cars without safety cars, etc (including F1s at Copse) and it never bothered me.

[DALY]

.......did we have the quarters at Mallory on Sunday? .... I was just following Ed and when he slowed I did, after all I knew if I passed him he would retake the lead again....and again.. and again...

Seriously, the idea that the qtr flag is difficult to understand and therefore needs removing is crazy. What is annoying is if you are following a driver who does not understand the reason for the flag, that is, to get all cars bunched up and circulating as a group to allow free track space for marshalls to work on. By removing this and introducing more red flags, the track time for races will come under pressure and you will see even less value for money on race entry fees/track time allowed!

Thanks to the marshalls on sunday, it is great to get drive in an entertaining race and see that the guys on the bank enjoy it.

[Malc's]

For once it's nice to see both the marshals and drivers agreeing on something, let's just hope that the MSA read these pages or for once listen to our opinion.
Yes, the SoM was entertaining but it's about time you won at Mallory Peter. Congratulations to you on your championship and to everyone else who raced you.