FIA thoughts on safety procedures

[Moneyseeker]

Following the FIA press conference today on initial areas they weill focus on to improve safety.

Controlling speed in yellow flag sectors - FIA need to find a way to control the speed rather than leaving it to drivers. FIA meeting all teams at the GP to discuss possibilities

Tractors - use of skirts to stop cars going underneath recovery vehicles will e invetigated.

Trackside recovery - tractors working trackside will be used with 'extreme caution' - can we take this as meaning only under safety car conditions?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116267

[Sodemo]

The skirts wouldn't be needed if the cars weren't at or near racing speeds. Extreme caution is what they should have been exercising before now, ie tractors only under SC.

In theory the speed limit under yellows would be a good thing, however im not sure how they would do it, would it be a throttle cut? What if the driver is in the middle of a corner and the throttle cuts and the pitch change throws them off the track?

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

The skirts wouldn't be needed if the cars weren't at or near racing speeds. Extreme caution is what they should have been exercising before now, ie tractors only under SC.

In theory the speed limit under yellows would be a good thing, however im not sure how they would do it, would it be a throttle cut? What if the driver is in the middle of a corner and the throttle cuts and the pitch change throws them off the track?

It seems like they are talking about minimum times for certain parts of sectors of the track rather that copy a good idea from sportscars.

[SidewaysFeltham]

From the Grauniad to day.

"The FIA is to impose a speed limit for Formula One drivers in dangerous conditions".

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...-bianchi-crash

Such as when an F1 car leaves the factory?

Real racing drivers thrived on "Danger".

If a driver cannot restrain himself and adjust his driving to conditions, then he accords to the old maxim:

"There are old racing drivers; and bold racing drivers. But there are few old, bold racing drivers.

I am thinking here of Peterson, Rindt, et al.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Tractors - use of skirts to stop cars going underneath recovery vehicles will e invetigated.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116267

One potential problem with recovery vehicles is that some of them are likely to be only hired in for the GP. In normal circumstance a circuit might only need 2 or 3 such machines but for a GP they probably need one for every gravel trap.
It would be straight forward to add a skirt around the circuit's own vehicles but not so easy with hired in machines as it would be a problem to make skirts to many different types of machine.

One has also to remember FOM (Bernie/CVC) squezzzes every last cent out of the circuit's so their budgets are very tight.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham

From the Grauniad to day.

"The FIA is to impose a speed limit for Formula One drivers in dangerous conditions".

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/201...-bianchi-crash

Such as when an F1 car leaves the factory?

Real racing drivers thrived on "Danger".

If a driver cannot restrain himself and adjust his driving to conditions, then he accords to the old maxim:

"There are old racing drivers; and bold racing drivers. But there are few old, bold racing drivers.

I am thinking here of Peterson, Rindt, et al.

I feel like there has been so much focus on the driver. There could have been a corner worker between that lift and the track. That corner worker would likely be dead after that accident. Racing fans make a big deal about a serious injury or death of a driver, but not nearly as much for a corner worker.

I agree the real problem here was a driver driving too fast for conditions, but the problem is the victim is as likely to be an innocent corner worker as a driver.

There should be speed limits, or race bans if a driver puts a wheel off in a yellow zone. The whole using a yellow to catch up is a bunch of hooey. It's been going on forever, but it's been wrong forever.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

One potential problem with recovery vehicles is that some of them are likely to be only hired in for the GP. In normal circumstance a circuit might only need 2 or 3 such machines but for a GP they probably need one for every gravel trap.
It would be straight forward to add a skirt around the circuit's own vehicles but not so easy with hired in machines as it would be a problem to make skirts to many different types of machine.

One has also to remember FOM (Bernie/CVC) squezzzes every last cent out of the circuit's so their budgets are very tight.

The obvious though expensive thing is for the FIA to go to the JCB, Caterpillar etc, work with them to design a skirt/safety system that can be bolted on to their existing ranges of vehicles.
These Bolt on kits could then be sold or hired to circuits.

Perhaps the FIA/FOM could purchase some as well, and have several sets leap frogging events. But at the same time make it part of the circuit grading scheme that to be Grade 1 or 1T, a circuit must have a minimum number of permanently fitted vehicles and minimum sets for bolting onto to hired in lifters.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

In theory the speed limit under yellows would be a good thing, however im not sure how they would do it, would it be a throttle cut? What if the driver is in the middle of a corner and the throttle cuts and the pitch change throws them off the track?

Code 60 like in the WEC would be a good starting point

Wouldn't need the safety car for that either unless things were very serious.

[wolfhound]

There might be a test of delta times under yellow flags at Austin with view to full implimentation next year.
The idea being that the drivers cannot go under a certain time for a given sector of track when it is under yellow.

Sounds like a potential for confusion to me with different times for different parts of a circuit

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116299

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

There might be a test of delta times under yellow flags at Austin with view to full implimentation next year.
The idea being that the drivers cannot go under a certain time for a given sector of track when it is under yellow.

Sounds like a potential for confusion to me with different times for different parts of a circuit

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116299

The layout at Sochi with the timing line immediately after the final corner, would give such a headache.

Lets say someone runs out wide and given the layout crosses the finishing line whilst sliding sideways into the recticel barriers. The Car is in the first sector but surely you want the cars slowed down sufficiently in the final sector before reaching the last corner where given the blind corner a double yellow would still be getting shown on entry, and so you would activate the neutralised delta time for Sector 3.... Then on passing the incident is the rest of sector one still at the neutralised delta even though it is green flagged.

2 of the 3 sectors neutralised you'd be as well and probably quicker calling Safety car than trying to explain to drivers that they can and can't do.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

The layout at Sochi with the timing line immediately after the final corner, would give such a headache.

Lets say someone runs out wide and given the layout crosses the finishing line whilst sliding sideways into the recticel barriers. The Car is in the first sector but surely you want the cars slowed down sufficiently in the final sector before reaching the last corner where given the blind corner a double yellow would still be getting shown on entry, and so you would activate the neutralised delta time for Sector 3.... Then on passing the incident is the rest of sector one still at the neutralised delta even though it is green flagged.

2 of the 3 sectors neutralised you'd be as well and probably quicker calling Safety car than trying to explain to drivers that they can and can't do.

To the best of my knowledge they are talking about much shorter sectors that those used for puplic consumption. I suspect they will be a small number of marshal sectors as in a sector consisting of a small number of flag posts. These are currently used to show the drivers the yellow zones on their steering wheels to the best of my knowledge.

[bella]

yeah, they now use the sectors between flag posts for yellow flags etc. that's the one you have to be 0.5 seconds slower in during a period of double waved yellows. there's those sectors, and theres the more traditional 3 that are used for live timing.

[Greem]

In terms of sectors, they'll be between light panels. Some panel sectors include multiple flag points.

[deley]

Originally Posted by Greem

In terms of sectors, they'll be between light panels. Some panel sectors include multiple flag points.

Unfortunately light panels aren't always at the flag points so there will be the "green flag passed before green light panel - OK to race before passing green light" situations.

[Nicholosophy]

Surely if they just use Code 60/80/whatever then they get the same result.

FIA Idea: Driver has to watch screen to make sure they don't exceed delta
Code 60: Driver presses a button to limit his speed to no greater than 60

Second one seems easier for drivers and far safer than them looking at their displays during yellow flag zones.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Nicholosophy

Surely if they just use Code 60/80/whatever then they get the same result.

FIA Idea: Driver has to watch screen to make sure they don't exceed delta
Code 60: Driver presses a button to limit his speed to no greater than 60

Second one seems easier for drivers and far safer than them looking at their displays during yellow flag zones.

I agree and probably easier to police as well.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I go back to a comment I made earlier about how to manage the slowing down safely.....How safe would hitting the pit lane button whilst doing 200mph and another car with DRS open 2 feet off your gearbox.
There needs to be some form of slow down zone where cars in the above situation could safely separate and then slow.

[Woolley]

The problem with speed and time limits is that it depends on the corner.

60mph at Mirabeau is a little quick, at Copse it's too slow. 0.5 seconds slower through Eau Rouge is very different from 0.5 seconds slower through La Source.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Woolley

The problem with speed and time limits is that it depends on the corner.

60mph at Mirabeau is a little quick, at Copse it's too slow. 0.5 seconds slower through Eau Rouge is very different from 0.5 seconds slower through La Source.

I agree but my feeling is that the speed limiter is easier to impliment, it has been used at LeMans, and the cars already got the technology in place for the pitlane limiter.
If you are using different time deltas for different parts of the circuit then there is the possiblity for confusion with drivers as to the limit they are allowed to drive to.
As the slow zones would probably only operate for one or two laps and with proper warning should not disrupt the race too much (it is easy to arrange that every car goes through the zone a set number of times) then it should be easy to set up without confusing the situation.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

I go back to a comment I made earlier about how to manage the slowing down safely.....How safe would hitting the pit lane button whilst doing 200mph and another car with DRS open 2 feet off your gearbox.
There needs to be some form of slow down zone where cars in the above situation could safely separate and then slow.

As it is done at Le Mans, there is a sign and flag out at the marshalling point before the slow zone and you are expected to back off and slow down for the slow zone.

If Code 60 was used (which is full course instead of a slow zone) then I imagine DRS would be disabled anyway and you would have to allow time to react.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by Woolley

The problem with speed and time limits is that it depends on the corner.

60mph at Mirabeau is a little quick, at Copse it's too slow. 0.5 seconds slower through Eau Rouge is very different from 0.5 seconds slower through La Source.

I was whining about full course cautions to a corner worker on another board and they commented that slowing the cars down for the whole lap gives the corner workers more time to deal with the problem without having cars constantly on top of them. Usually there is some bunching of the cars and the quiet periods last longer when they are crawling their way around.

From that perspective, there really isn't such a thing as "too slow." Plus, you don't have the problem of cars racing to catch up under yellow, and other cars losing a hard-won advantage.

[VIVA GT]

So, is the proposal that the cars are all limited to a maximum speed until the pace car can pick up the leader of the train and therefore control speeds? That would allow the cars to bunch up into a complete snake (but the safety car would maybe have to circulate slower than the control speed so that the stragglers at the back could catch up). This would stop the silly 'allow the slow cars past the safety car to whizz round the track and catch up at the back again' situation, but would elongate the time that races are neutralised.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

So, is the proposal that the cars are all limited to a maximum speed until the pace car can pick up the leader of the train and therefore control speeds? That would allow the cars to bunch up into a complete snake (but the safety car would maybe have to circulate slower than the control speed so that the stragglers at the back could catch up). This would stop the silly 'allow the slow cars past the safety car to whizz round the track and catch up at the back again' situation, but would elongate the time that races are neutralised.

The issue I have with letting the lapped cars through is that they make them run to the SC delta. The reason they let them unlap is because the issue is resolved and they will go racing soon, so what they should do is allow the cars to go at speed to catch up to the train.

This is based on the idea that the track is ready to race, so there should be no safety issue.

If we used Code 60 instead there would be none of this unlapping crap to deal with anyway.

[Tucky]

The FIA have released who will be on the new FIA accident panel. Couple of names I'm unfamiliar with but it's good to see Ross Brawn back in F1, even if it's not directly with a team. I'm actually pretty surprised Jackie Stewart isn't on the list considering what he's done for safety over the years.