Vancouver 1997

[macdaddy]

Hello, all!

As promised, here's a highlight reel from Vancouver, circa 1997.
A classic drive by Alex Zanardi...

Sorry...
Vid is offline for now, Milwaukee has been reposted...

[Jordi]

Downloading now... I partly remember the race, as it was maybe the first time I had Eurosport channel at home, but I don't remember if I saw qualifying or race.... well, now I'll remember!

[Jordi]

Oooh! That was great! That's the kind of driving that would have earned Zanardi a 1 or 2 GP suspension in F1...

Please please keep them coming, I have not seen most of those seasons so it's a pleasure to see that now!

[jklein6419]

i wish champ car racin was that exciting nowadays

[f1manoz]

More beer for macdaddy!

What a race!

[TheRob]

I was at that race. What a great drive from Zinardi. 28 cars on the grid?!? Those were the days.

On another note, didn't the CBC do such a great job with Brian Williams and Bobby Unser compared to the yum yums we get from Global these days? Bring back the mother corp. I say!

[Snrub]

In all fairness I think it was sort of indicitive of Zanardi. Half of the passes they showed were him overshooting the corner (ie. not clean). I even give him some leeway because Vancouver is very tough to pass on. How about that squeeze on Herta? If that's not dirty driving I don't know what is. That's forgetting the fact that Zanardi was a lap down and Herta was the leader. He did that kind of stuff to a regular basis to Herta because he could. Herta was always a meek driver, Zanardi the exact opposite and took advantage of him. Sure he was incredibly quick but no accomplishment matters until you consider HOW you've done it.

I think it was '99 at Elkhart when Montoya heralded in an time of regular outside passing. (other's started doing it more from about that point on) He took Andretti three times on the outside, completely cleanly. In the after the race Andretti was in awe. It can take slightly longer to get a pass done when you do it cleanly and fairly, but you leave no doubt as to your abilities.

Dominguez did a lot of these sort of manuvers in 2003. (I'm not talking about Germany) He's the only guy who I didn't mind doing it because he was so bad in 2002. I think that was kind of the point too, he had trouble making a legit pass.

I know from my own very novice experience just how hard it is to make a clean pass vs. a crude manover. I seem to get into this situation a fair bit. 3+ seconds a lap faster than the guy in front it's easy to essentially force a pass to get in front. (an impatient, crude, Zanardi-esk manouver) Heck you can to it to someone who's slightly faster! My abilities are not such that I can even make a good clean pass in this sort of situation at the usual track.

And no I don't think Brian Williams and Bobby Unser did a good job announcing, I thought they were horible. Williams doesn't get racing and you cannot tell that Unser use to drive let alone has watched more than a douzen races. Comparing it to the modern Global coverage is like asking the question which fecal material smells worse, elephant or horse?

[macdaddy]

I gotta disagree. Zanardi was never a "dirty" driver. He was perhaps the most aggressive in recent memory, but he certainly never garnered a reputation for taking other people out. I'm not condoning the squeeze on Herta, but Zanardi must have passed over 40 cars on that tight circuit, and only made contact once. (Granted, Herta was leading - but he wasn't in a position to win).
As far as "overshooting the corner" is concerned, in my books a "clean" pass is any pass that doesn't involve contact. The object is to win, and if you know that you can gain a position "cleanly" by overshooting a particular corner, why wouldn't you do it? Hey - if it works!
Nobody will ever convince me that Zanardi was a dirty driver.

[Snrub]

Again my point is that anyone can throw their car infront of another. You basically are telling the other driver not to run into you. You're not avoiding contact, the other driver is. That's what Zanardi did to Herta there and on the classic move at Laguna. Both times Herta was the bigger man and took the consequences alone. If Zanardi had tried either move on PT what do you think would have happend? PT doesn't LET anyone get by. If a driver puts his car in a position where he relies on PT to slow down to avoid a collision, both cars are going to be out of the race. Everyone knows that. Most drivers are willing to give up a position rather than make someone pay for a crude overtaking manouver. Tracy even takes it to an extreme, recall how angry Bourdais was getting with him last season. (not meaning the collision @ Miami)

Now that I think of it, the PT comparison is the litmus test of a clean pass. Granted like I said before leeway is given for different circumstances, so sometimes a 'good enough' pass might fail the PT test.

Zanardi could have passed 35 cars instead of 40 by taking slightly more time to make it by legit. In fact he probably wouldn't needed to have passed 40 cars because he would have stayed on course. I'd have a lot more respect for him if he'd done things that way.

[codename_47]

Thanks for the clips Macdaddy....

Unfortunatly you can't get CART season reviews here, so these are my only chance to see such exciting action!

[macdaddy]

Then I'll keep 'em coming! Knowing that they're being enjoyed makes it all worthwhile.

I watched Zanardi's last-to-first run at Cleveland this morning. But as I've mentioned, it doesn't make for a good highlight reel because the TV crew didn't realize what was up until he was in P3.

I could do a Jerez'97 tape and post it on the F1 board, but the mods there would likely kill me for inciting a riot!

Wanted to do Cleveland'93, but the quality of that tape is pretty poor. The 1997 tape is best, so then I thought about Detroit, but the infamous last lap is already available elsewhere. (Not that the race was only 1-lap long...) I could do a Zanardi tribute, a "contact" or "best passes" vid, whatever. Odds are, at the rate I'm going right now, you'll see them all this offseason anyway and I'll have nothing left for next year!

I've also got 94-96 available, but to tell the truth I haven't looked at the tapes yet, so I don't know their quality. If they're any good, and if you can suggest any exceptional races from that period, I'll see what I can do.

In the meantime, let me plant this bug into everybody's ear, just one more time... I've got (what I consider to be) a fantastic video from Michigan2000, as shot from my videocamera. A perspective not available on TV. But due to the nature of the race (500 miles of endless highlights), it will not fit onto my skimpy FTP. So if anybody wants to step up to the plate and make it available (if only for one day), PM me. Everybody will love you for it!
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Next up on the program schedule...
Milwaukee 1997 (Repost)
???

Download Vancouver now, while you still can!

[Jordi]

Oh, do the Jerez tape please... after all Jacques is a former CART champion! (Actually the only one to have defeated Michael in a championship, Monty fans! )

[Dov]

How about JV passing Marios Grandsons Father on the last or 2nd last lap to win the Cleveland GP...I believe it took place in '95?

[djb]

Snrub, very insightful comments regarding the "hack" aspects of some of Zanardi's passes. As much as I usually enjoyed watching his enthusiasm of driving, I remember that race and recall the feeling that he was being a real bull in a china shop on some passes and was simply lucky that as you stated, that someone didn't decide to say "screw you" and not get out of his way.

again, with time, I don't think that anyone is a sacred cow, and yes, he was faster than anyone on the track at that race, and yes it was fun to watch, but as someone who raced motorcycles (a very small amount) I too agree with not finding it kosher someone who is willing to do hack moves to get ahead.

An important point to bring up despite what I just said is that on a track like that, hard passes are probably the only way to go, and one could get seriously stuck behind someone for corner after corner if the guy in front knows you are going to take it safe (DC at Monaco behind whatshisname a few years back) AND while the LSeca pass is an iffy one for me regarding whether it was so well thought out, in general I'd have to agree that Zanardi wasn't ever a consistently dirty driver, or at least not my memories of him, despite my memory that taking out Herta at that race wasn't very cool.

[Hazza]

Macdaddy, are you game to post a Indy 500 video? Check the '95 one with Jacques come from behind. Great videos *asallways*

macdady
I could do a Zanardi tribute... or a "best passes" vid.

Arn't they the same thing?

[macdaddy]

Hazza... It's tough to squeeze 500 miles into 6 minutes! How about the final few laps, and the postrace interviews?

Next up (after a Milwaukee repost) will be Cleveland 95. Dov reminded me of that one, and I watched it this afternoon. Great race!

Jordi... Jerez will get done, too!

[Hazza]

Macdaddy - what ever I'm just being a wishfull thinker! What ever you'll do will be awsome

[TheRob]

I could do a Jerez'97 tape and post it on the F1 board, but the mods there would likely kill me for inciting a riot!

I'd love to see that.

Got the Minnawakkee(meaning, "The Good Land")one. Cheers.