[ELMS] ELMS 2015 Discussion

[joeb]

The interest in this series has grown over the past 2 years, and more and more teams are finding it an attractive place to go racing. Among those is the recently announced Graff project with a P2 Ligier:

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/gra...ms-et-le-mans/

LMP2 interest in general will continue to be high in 2015, but I am not sure what the GTE numbers will look like. Will they stay high? or drop off some? GTC(3) will probably still be well attended.

[Victor_RO]

Isn't the series also allowing LMP3 as well next year?

[gustavobamba]

Graff Racing news!!!!!

Possible new car in ELMS and Le Mans "if invited!!!"

http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/gra...ms-et-le-mans/

Nice Livery :-)

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Isn't the series also allowing LMP3 as well next year?

All signs point to yes, but there were reports on Twitter (via EI) that those numbers won't be too high.

[Jam3s]

So thus far the confirmed new additions to the P2 class are Graff and Eurasia? Any of the current lot looking to drop out?

[joeb]

Pegasus also has a second Morgan now so they could expand. On the other side there may be a car or two contemplating the wec. My guess is we will have one or two more P2's next season than we did this.

[pederb]

According to Dagys so is Belgian SRT evaluating to run their C6 Corvette in ELMS next year

[carbon_titanium]

Originally Posted by pederb

According to Dagys so is Belgian SRT evaluating to run their C6 Corvette in ELMS next year

it would be great, but I don't know if the car in the pic is still ACO specs, being the original 5.5 V8 swapped with the old katech LS7R

[Koenigsegg]

I do wonder if P2 teams that want to do ELMS in 2015, but are turned down for Le Mans will stay around for ELMS.

Recent years almost all (if not all) ELMS P2 teams made their way over to Le Mans in one way or another. Doesn't look like many 2015 ELMS P2 teams are allowed in for Le Mans due to the increased P1 grid and expected increase in WEC P2 entrants.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

I do wonder if P2 teams that want to do ELMS in 2015, but are turned down for Le Mans will stay around for ELMS.

Recent years almost all (if not all) ELMS P2 teams made their way over to Le Mans in one way or another. Doesn't look like many 2015 ELMS P2 teams are allowed in for Le Mans due to the increased P1 grid and expected increase in WEC P2 entrants.

I suspect for a big hitter outfit, getting an LM entry is a big determinant in whether the programme goes ahead or not - the demise of the second Alpine this year being a clear example of this.

For those further down the pecking order, e.g. Pegasus etc, I suspect LM is a nice to have, but going out and running their LMP2 in ELMS is reward enough.

While the WEC entry cap will help matters a bit, ultimately ELMS probably needs to find another halo event to keep its appeal and be able to stand without the carrot of Le Mans entry - something along the lines of a 6 hour event somewhere like Monza might go some way towards that.

[Simmi]

Another LMP3 in the ELMS next year with SVK by Speed Factory.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...mp3-order.html

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by isynge

While the WEC entry cap will help matters a bit, ultimately ELMS probably needs to find another halo event to keep its appeal and be able to stand without the carrot of Le Mans entry - something along the lines of a 6 hour event somewhere like Monza might go some way towards that.

I don't think that - on its own - would be a big draw, let alone a proper halo event. Now if you add LM invites for the various class winners you might be on to something. It would probably be best to tie the invites to full season participation in ELMS though and make the race a bit longer than a mere six hours.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't think that - on its own - would be a big draw, let alone a proper halo event. Now if you add LM invites for the various class winners you might be on to something. It would probably be best to tie the invites to full season participation in ELMS though and make the race a bit longer than a mere six hours.

You've got a point, and I'll confess to not even being wholly convinced myself when I wrote it that a Monza 6 Hours would be a halo event (especially given that Monza has never attracted much of a sportscar crowd, even in the 1980s heyday). Part of me thought that the inclusion of PLM as an ELMS season closer in 2012 was a great idea - and if they could do something with a decent travel package, having a late season flyaway - with LM invites as a carrot, somewhere like a Kyalami 9 Hours or Interlagos Mile Milhas then we might be onto something.

I suspect the ELMS would rightly turn around and say they should get bedded in and have another couple of stable successful seasons before they look to do something like this, but would be good wouldn't it?

[bella]

something that involved sea or airfreight and long distance plane tickets would start to price a lot of entrants out of the market. so it's absolutely key to keep it on the european continent.

but i really like the idea of a big halo race too - somewhere awesome like the red bull ring (it's the scenery, the sunsets there are awesome) would be great, i don't think you need a particularly legendary venue as long as it was a decent drivers circuit and good for spectating. i'd like to think there were ways of making sure the cost stays within reasonable margins somehow, but obviously that's easier said than done.

at the moment the elms season is too short, but they don't half go to some decent tracks. silverstone aside they're all great venues. so glad they didn't go the tilkedrome route of the single seaters.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Another LMP3 in the ELMS next year with SVK by Speed Factory.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...mp3-order.html

Have any other LMP3s been confirmed for the ELMS? Come to think of it, have any other LMP3s been built or ordered, besides Ginetta-Junos?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by bella

something that involved sea or airfreight and long distance plane tickets would start to price a lot of entrants out of the market. so it's absolutely key to keep it on the european continent.

but i really like the idea of a big halo race too - somewhere awesome like the red bull ring (it's the scenery, the sunsets there are awesome) would be great, i don't think you need a particularly legendary venue as long as it was a decent drivers circuit and good for spectating. i'd like to think there were ways of making sure the cost stays within reasonable margins somehow, but obviously that's easier said than done.

at the moment the elms season is too short, but they don't half go to some decent tracks. silverstone aside they're all great venues. so glad they didn't go the tilkedrome route of the single seaters.

Wholly agree that another couple of rounds would do no harm at all - the likes of Zolder, Brno, Hungaroring, or some of the plethora of tracks in Spain (have a soft spot for Jarama) would all work well.

I'm firmly of the opinion that with the right approach costs can be managed - and that's one of the reasons I floated the notion of a flyaway - get the right regional promoter / backer involved and this can put a freight package in place that means the teams could potentially see this as a commercially valid proposition - convince Vale that a season ending 10 hour race at Interlagos is an ideal way of boosting their profile and I'm sure they could ferret around behind their corporate sofa and find some loose change to pay for it...

[bella]

it's not freight necessarily that's the big hit - for example i've just booked a door to door 40ft container to somewhere in china for £1600 on a 42 day journey. if they timed it so it could be done by sea both ways and the road/rail element wasn't too silly it'd be pretty reasonable. flight tickets for personnel are more than that - 10 economy seats to the states and you're not far off £6k, a couple of premium economy seats for the drivers and important team members and it's not far off £12k.

i like jarama too. estoril reminded me a lot of there, aside from the lack of dust. the location and slightly... retro feel to the place was very similar

[Deleted]

If you discount LM from WEC, as IMO you kinda should, there's no other 'halo event' in that championship either for unfortunate reasons discussed many times, so ELMS doing the same thing doesn't surprise me a bit.

Anyway, if ACO had to courage to merge LMGTE into one again and cap their entry into minimal (= 'the rest' filler positions) for LM, you could have all the LMP2s you ever wanted for Le Mans. Like 25-30 cars or something.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I don't think that - on its own - would be a big draw, let alone a proper halo event. Now if you add LM invites for the various class winners you might be on to something. It would probably be best to tie the invites to full season participation in ELMS though and make the race a bit longer than a mere six hours.

The ELMS champions don't already get an auto-invite to Le Mans?

[Speed-King]

The champions do, but giving out additional invites to the race winners of one special race would probably go a long way towards establishing it as a halo event.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The champions do, but giving out additional invites to the race winners of one special race would probably go a long way towards establishing it as a halo event.

If they just started giving auto entries for winning some normal race, say "4 Hours of Estoril" without making any modifications to the race format, it would be almost as stupid exercise as double points Abu Boring Grand Prix. Yeah you'd probably get some extra entries but it would still be stupid. PLM standed out.

If they created 6 hours race in the midst of 4 hours out there somewhere as suggested earlier here, yes that would make it stand out more. But we know the ACO loves their steady, standardized calendars without expectations for the most part.

However, you remember what they did with Paul Ricard 8 Hours - which was rarity in itself - extra points when certain distance was reached. Think they should revive that event back and give auto entries from the winners of that. I'd like that, and also you had one "special event" that standed out from the sea of regular races.

The prospect of this happening is at least a tad more realistic than with my own number 1 preference, which would be to have at least one integrated event with the WEC in Europe, but obviously that is now never gonna happen due to the artificially capped grid for luxury & corporate reasons + attitude of the upper management.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If they just started giving auto entries for winning some normal race, say "4 Hours of Estoril" without making any modifications to the race format, it would be almost as stupid exercise as double points Abu Boring Grand Prix. Yeah you'd probably get some extra entries but it would still be stupid. PLM standed out.

If they created 6 hours race in the midst of 4 hours out there somewhere as suggested earlier here, yes that would make it stand out more. But we know the ACO loves their steady, standardized calendars without expectations for the most part.

However, you remember what they did with Paul Ricard 8 Hours - which was rarity in itself - extra points when certain distance was reached. Think they should revive that event back and give auto entries from the winners of that. I'd like that, and also you had one "special event" that standed out from the sea of regular races.

The prospect of this happening is at least a tad more realistic than with my own number 1 preference, which would be to have at least one integrated event with the WEC in Europe, but obviously that is now never gonna happen due to the artificially capped grid for luxury & corporate reasons + attitude of the upper management.

If you look at a lot of tracks, especially the grade 1 ones, there's plenty of scope to accommodate the luxury and corporate demands. At Silverstone it's obvious that the Wing is massively underused at the WEC (and that's well before I can get started on the manifest number of things that Silverstone does wrong) and at Spa, while I've noticed Toyota have been using the suites above the old pits there's still a lot of open space out there that could be used.

Suspect it's unlikely to happen - simply down to the confusion of how many different classes etc there are, but at a track like Spa having a properly big grid like we had not too many years ago would be very much appreciated.

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by isynge

If you look at a lot of tracks, especially the grade 1 ones, there's plenty of scope to accommodate the luxury and corporate demands. At Silverstone it's obvious that the Wing is massively underused at the WEC (and that's well before I can get started on the manifest number of things that Silverstone does wrong) and at Spa, while I've noticed Toyota have been using the suites above the old pits there's still a lot of open space out there that could be used.

Suspect it's unlikely to happen - simply down to the confusion of how many different classes etc there are, but at a track like Spa having a properly big grid like we had not too many years ago would be very much appreciated.

I don't think a combined round of WEC/ELMS is possible, because assuming WEC grows to 32 cars next year, and ELMS stays at 35-40, there would be around 70 cars on track. But we had 50 car grids at Spa before, so adding just the LMP2 class (and maybe GTE as well) from ELMS could work. While it seems unlikely to happen, I think it would be a good preparation for the many ELMS teams that run at Le Mans.

[Deleted]

If they got rid of ELMS GT3 (which let's be honest is only there for filler reason) for that one-off integration, they'd fit say Spa very nicely.

I already covered sparse Silverstone garage allocations, WEC luxuries and other things there and in that thread generally as well so I won't repeat it now

[Simmi]

It looks like a fairly decent new team is joining the ELMS next year in GT3. Info has been around for a few days but I've just read up on Massive Motorsport.

http://www.speedweek.com/24hlemans/n...otorsport.html



The guy behind it is Kristian Poulsen from 'Dane Train' fame in the WEC. It sounds like he's not going to run in that series next year, which maybe brings that #95 entry into doubt with DHH known to be looking at P2 options.