Super Production Racing

[racer69]

How come CAMS doesn't try and help set up a Super Production series. There are literally heaps world wide, they have there own races as part of the ETC, and they are as cheap as Touring Cars get, and it allows heaps of manufacturers to enter, and it would give a chance for a World Series and Aussie teams to contest the ETC, it could replace Super Touring.

[Crash Test]

A fair pit of the issue would be that we already have GTP, and it isn't really production car racing anymore, and plus as TOCA has found out, this sort of class doesn't work in Australia. They actually opened up last year's field to Super Produciton, a couple of people said they were building cars, but by seasons end, there were none to be seen.

TOCA have pretty much replaced Super Touring with Future Touring- that's where their competitors are going. As far as a world cup goes, I don't know if a private Australian entrant would have a chance when put up next to the might of some of the European heavyweights.

Don't get me wrong, I would dearly love to see a world touring car circus travel all over the countryside, but just the last time it was done...errrmmm....it was a bit of a gooey mess.

[Craig]

I thought Bathurst was supposed to be the world cup of TC racing...? But, as you say, an outsider coming in really is never gonna stand a chance against a local driver...

[racer69]

How can bathurst be the world cup of touring car racing, the race is know for old technology pieces of **** which have no rlevence to the rest of the world. I consider we are a joke of a touring car series and i am embarrassed whenever i go overseas to say that in Australia we race the tanks we do.

[Crash Test]

Hmmm, the engines may date back to the 50s, and they are crude in a few areas, but heck, they work! And the crowd loves them, and they race at Bathrust...

[DAVID PATERSON]

Racer69 you have just displayed ignorance of a vast order. The cars have a cast iron block and OHV. The old fashioned low tech ends right there. Have a look at the brakes, suspension, wheels, injection, engine management, etc. and tell me just how low tech and old fashioned these things are.

As for being pieces of ****, well I suppose you'd knock one back if it was offered to you right? They are among the best, most exciting and most impressive touring cars raced anywhere in the world and certainly among the best cars of any category raced in Australia.

Craig, I don't think anyone really believes that Bathurst is the world cup of Touring Cars. Some diehards like to believe that only a local can do well at Bathurst, but time and again, many of Europe's best have come to Bathurst and done well. A few of them have even won the bloody race.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, David, a few have... but only in locally prepared cars, as guest drivers.

But let's look a little further at the points you both (or all) raise.

Low tech may well end at the foundry, but what about the cost factors and low-level of return seen for all that trickery. In the engine, sure, fuel injection, engine management and rev limiters are giving enormous horsepower and ensuring great reliability. Sticking with that is a good idea.

But how much is it costing for the other stuff and to what end? The adjustable camber setups on the 'live axle' Commodore rear ends is nothing short of an expensive joke! A technical masterpiece, but hardly reflective of the live axles it is supposed to represent, and a lot of money for little return, with more parts to break and necessitate replacement.

What the V8 tourers do have is lots of spectator appeal. They can retain this with a downgrading of their technical specification, reducing the gap between the haves and the have-nots, though testing will always ensure the wealthier teams have the best chance.

That said, even with a downgrading in spec, they are hardly tanks!

They are all beautifully prepared, with fabrication that befits the name and body styles in concert with what the rest of the world has to offer.

Moreover, the base cars do a good job in regular service, while they are also able to withstand outback conditions better than almost anything you can import!

[Crash Test]

"..testing will always ensure the wealthier teams have the best chance."
-The problem these days is that there is a restriction on testing- only 12 days per year. Who does this advantage? The new teams who have no experience with the cars and how they should be set up/driven.

[Ray Bell]

It clearly advantages those who have the testing experience and the resources to make the changes quickest. The big teams.

[RaceTime]

And yet I have been to test sessions for HRT at Ph Island where they have allowed a dozen or so other cars to also use the track while they have it booked - this helped a couple of the smaller Holden teams in March as they wouldn't have been able to afford the track by themselves.

[Ray Bell]

I'm referring to them having the ability to translate the results of their tests into improvements...

And the ability to get that information in the limited time available, and to try the changes.

[RaceTime]

Not disputing that but there is also being able to physically get on the track. There is no doubting Phillip Island is one of the best tracks for testing but how many of the smaller one car teams can afford $2,500 a day - so any chance to get on there is beneficial to them.

[Ray Bell]

Funny, and I may be wrong, but if I hired Winton (how much does it cost a day?) and ran both circuits, and also did a session or two in the wrong direction on the short circuit, I think I'd have most combinations covered except really fast corners.

[RaceTime]

Ray,

Now you're getting into the realms of fantasy.

By both circuits - what do you mean? There is a long and short circuit - that's all - they aren't two seperate tracks.

And none of them can be run reverse direction - they do not have a licence for it - CAMS saw to that with the introduction of the so-called Melbourne curbs - they can only be run one direction. Plus, all flag points are situated for clockwise racing - you would need new positions for anti-clockwise racing.

The only track I am aware of in Australiasia that can run either direction is Manfeild in New Zealand.

[racer69]

all this from me suggesting we have a Super Production series in Australia

[RaceTime]

LOL - well they already have their own meetings don't they?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Yeah amazing isn't it, how off topic did we get?

Really, I don't think we'll get Super Production while ever Ross Palmer has his GTP series. CAMS don't like classes that are too similar in concept.

[Crash Test]

Hehehe...yeah, sort of like the Power Tour's Ute series....ooops!

I guess QLD teams have it lucky, they only have two tracks to chose from, and combining the two you have nearly every different type of corner. At QR they could use the cross overs to simulate certain corners if the need ever arised. There they can run a part of the infield section in the wrong direction, but that is just about the extent of it.