Stockhatch Changes

[HrRACING]

1.6 16v in BRDA for next year, and car must be under 10 years old.

Sounds like a great way to move the class forward, getting newer models in without loosing any of the exisiting cars that will remain to be the backbone of the class for the next few years I would imagine anyway.

And with the Open Championship making changes to bring in more modern cars too, people can 'slowly' stop moaning about the amount of bloody 205's!!

[BertMk2]

Will there be any form of performance equalising (extra weight or whatever) for the 16v? Anyone want to guess what the new dominant car will be?

[silver bullet]

I think we need a bit more clarification Hal.

Are you saying that the cars in the stockhatch class of the BRDA championship have to be 1.6, 16v and between three and ten years old. If that is the case is everything that does not fall within those boundries relagated to the BTRDA?

[Matti Alamaki]

Very silly to introduce that if there is not weight equalising measures to ensure the competiveness of current cars. Were drivers consulted on these matters?

[silver bullet]

OK. I can answer my own questions. It's in the new issue of Rallycross World.

Stockhatch will continue as it is at the moment, but a new class for 1600 16v is being introduced to run along side. The cars in the new class have to be no more than 10 years old but the minimum age limit of three years has been removed.

I am presuming that when enough cars have been built, that they alone will become the cars eligible to race in the BRDA/MSA championship.

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by Matti Alamaki

Were drivers consulted on these matters?

Yes drivers were asked to put forward their ideas.
I know I did.
Obviously they didn't think much of mine



*shelves plans for a Fiesta RS1800*

[Matti Alamaki]

I suppose at least it allows the saxos to coninue until 2014, very easy to dump a 16v motor into one of them if somebody wanted to move on from stock hatch.

Looks like the first steps towards the nail in the coffin for the 205, she'll live on as a legend!

[MJ1]

Its not that easy! better off starting from scratch... Saxo for sale!!

[leonidas]

I'm confused here... so are there going to be different weight limits to hold back the 16v cars? Otherwise there are going to be a lot of second hand 205s and Saxos on sale at the end of the season...

[RICKY_BOBBY]

I think what they have done is probably going to cause the same problems that exist now. i cant really think of any cars that will be quicker and cheaper than a saxo vts unless your allowed to to use vtech systems? so grids full of the same cars probably wont be a thing of the past!
potential cars:
saxo vts- cheap and quick
106 gti- quick but rarer and more expensive than saxo
lupo gti- expensive base car
corsa gsi- heavy
fiesta zetec s- heavy
clio 1.6 16v- slow

please remember these are just my opinions no offence intended

why not two litre engines so that both championships could share competitors

does anybody have any thoughts on other potential cars?

[leonidas]

Yes, I agree about 2 litre. I would have thought that people wanting to upgrade their machinery will just go down the Procar2000 route rather than bother with 1.6 16v. Although without tight weight limits you'll probably have the same problem of one make domination as people soon find out which is the best 'stock' package.

[Roundy Mooney]

Sooner or later the class will have to go 16v as there is no new 8 valves being built. Whats important is the way its introduced and that the weight limit for each model is set correctly and if nessesary changed if one model becomes to dominate.

Don't know if it has been mentioned already but it was decided at Irish Championship forum that DIV 2 would be introduced with immediate effect.
The only difference being that cars out of homologation could still be used as long as they ran to their last papers.

There seems to be good interest unlike the attempt to bring in 1.6 16 valve over last two years with apparently two cars being bought from sweden and another two in the process of being built already.

[strongbow dek]

looks like its gonna be 106 gti /saxo vts cup then!!!! people will be moaning about the lack of variety even more. if people stick to the rules it will be a 106 class, as we all know the only saxo to win was using 106 parts!!!

[leonidas]

I think the Irish boys are going the right way with a Div 2 class.

A 2 litre stock hatch class below this (like Procar2000) would allow drivers a starting sensible point and then allow people to modify their cars to Div 2 spec easily as their money and ambition grew. I know international spec Div 2 cars aren't cheap but older cars in national championships are reasonably priced and there is a solid resale market for them.

[RX demon]

Originally Posted by strongbow dek

looks like its gonna be 106 gti /saxo vts cup then!!!! people will be moaning about the lack of variety even more. if people stick to the rules it will be a 106 class, as we all know the only saxo to win was using 106 parts!!!

MMMM and we all know what car that was Won the next session to the engine went bang and has never been seen since
As for the " New 2008 rules " God come on im so old now i cant race anymore as im so old !
Been waiting years for these Only 4 years late !
Pitty the plebs (oh sorry) powers o mighty didnt do this then as many of the top guys who would and still could thrash the pants of the current Stock hatch field not been driven out by BS and no steeping stone to go to .
Have to agree with you other guys on here that the 2 litre procar looks the way to go as who wants to race a 1600 cc car when a 2000cc class is up and running?
Oh the min age thing sounds like its been knicked from some where else !
Chatted with CC a few months back and he said that was one of the new regs in Procar 2000. Hope it doesnt get so involved as the mclaren thing????

[chris cake]

Originally Posted by RX demon

MMMM and we all know what car that was Won the next session to the engine went bang and has never been seen since
As for the " New 2008 rules " God come on im so old now i cant race anymore as im so old !
Been waiting years for these Only 4 years late !
Pitty the plebs (oh sorry) powers o mighty didnt do this then as many of the top guys who would and still could thrash the pants of the current Stock hatch field not been driven out by BS and no steeping stone to go to .
Have to agree with you other guys on here that the 2 litre procar looks the way to go as who wants to race a 1600 cc car when a 2000cc class is up and running?
Oh the min age thing sounds like its been knicked from some where else !
Chatted with CC a few months back and he said that was one of the new regs in Procar 2000. Hope it doesnt get so involved as the mclaren thing????

Where it this info ?

[richorton]

Think someone is implying about rodney greens car think il be sticking
with my little puggy for next year. cant afford to change car yet as i ve got to much money tied up in my car .

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I think the Irish boys are going the right way with a Div 2 class.

Thats not cheap somebody in Ireland has just bought a car that was for sale for 26000 Euros !!!!!

[Audi S1]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

Thats not cheap somebody in Ireland has just bought a car that was for sale for 26000 Euros !!!!!

Well in the present climate and the cost of building cars in the Uk then i would say he has got a good deal and a cheap European legal car for around £18,000 which when you think Rodney Green's stockhatch car was bought for £10,000 and it is costing upwards of £60k for a supermodified car then i think this driver has the right idea.

Good on him, just a shame more didnt follow this route when the RSS was in operation, with its 3 fully legal classes and tied to get div 2 off the ground 3 years ago, we would have 20/30 cars now! never mind.

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by Audi S1

Good on him, just a shame more didnt follow this route when the RSS was in operation, with its 3 fully legal classes and tied to get div 2 off the ground 3 years ago, we would have 20/30 cars now! never mind.

There probably is not even 30 stock hatch drivers in the UK so where would another 30 drivers come from that would spend £16000 on cars. This thread is about stock hatch changes which is a class for clubmans racers !!!

[strongbow dek]

i think it will be a good class, but the 205,s will not keep up.unless there are penalties for the 16v's. it will bring more cars to the sport but where will it leave the people with their 205's? they will just be making up the numbers. having been involved in stock hatch from behind the scenes i have seen the way you guys have been treated in the past and i dont think its really fair to bring in a rule which basically makes all the current cars uncompetitive. as has been the case before a well prepared 8v 106 is easily as quick and on several occasions quicker than the 205s, a 16v is just gonna wipe the floor with them.
dont get me wrong i think it is a step which needs to be taken i just feel sorry for you lot who have spend to much time/money developing your 205's

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

There probably is not even 30 stock hatch drivers in the UK so where would another 30 drivers come from that would spend £16000 on cars. This thread is about stock hatch changes which is a class for clubmans racers !!!

The main reason that there are only 30 stock hatch drivers is that the class is a dead end. Once you've enjoyed stock hatch for a year or two and want to move on you've got to spend £25,000 building or buying a supermodified just so you can get beaten by a Lotus by about 30 seconds.

A stock 2 litre class could be a good feeder to Div 2. There have been plenty of serviceable Div 2 cars for sale for less than £10,000. They won't win you the ERC but they'll give you more competitive racing against similar spec modern machinery.

It's also a mistake to believe that ALL drivers want the cheapest cars possible. We need to ensure the entry level stock classes are very cheap. BUT there will be some who would happily spend to £10k to race in a professionally organised Div 2 championship but wouldn't be interested in a £1k stock hatch clubman championship. It's horses for courses...

[Chessmsport]

Originally Posted by leonidas

It's also a mistake to believe that ALL drivers want the cheapest cars possible. We need to ensure the entry level stock classes are very cheap. BUT there will be some who would happily spend to £10k to race in a professionally organised Div 2 championship but wouldn't be interested in a £1k stock hatch clubman championship. It's horses for courses...

So there are people who would spend £10K on a car to be uncompetitive in a Div2 class are there, not sure where they are, but you could spend a similar amount to be competitive in the 'new' stockhatch class...........

[HrRACING]

Do you not know how much the top people spend in the current stockhatch.

You'd be suprised i think. Yes lots of people do do it on a very low budget, but there are others spending a small fortune (in stockhatch terms)

Just look at the latest Irish stockhatch for sale.

[Matti Alamaki]

Originally Posted by Chessmsport

There probably is not even 30 stock hatch drivers in the UK so where would another 30 drivers come from that would spend £16000 on cars. This thread is about stock hatch changes which is a class for clubmans racers !!!

It's new drivers and some existing stock hatch drivers you be attracting to Division 2. Unless your a competent mechanic or engineer, supermodified is completely unattractive to your average enthusiast. It's way out of reach for most. Rallycross could be loosing potential customers for this very reason.

Plus we have seen many stock hatch drivers leaving the sport after stock hatch. What does this tell you?
Division 2 offers quick, reliable cars not requiring rocket science at affordable levels. 8/16 valve stock hatch would be a good prooving ground for Division 2providing the 16 valve cars are ballasted on a reducing scale year by year.

£18000 is cheap money for a car on ERC pace.
£6850 is also cheap money for a car capable of winning the MSA Stock Hatch championship.