IRL & CHAMP CAR Should They Merge?

[Xpunk75]

My opinion about IRL is this, since the split I had not watched one IRL race since this season’s home opener because i'm really getting back into racing hardcore not just Formula 1 like the last 9 years. After watching IRL I did enjoy the race and it was a lot of fun but what the true form of American Open Wheel racing should be is about Mixture of Half Ovals and Half Road Course and Street Circuits. It should capture every type of course an open wheel race car can race on to give its fans something different and exciting to watch. Formula 1 can no longer race on Street Circuits and why they race at Manioc is strictly for tradition and the money. IRL and Champ Car have a chance to unite and give us the people of North America and the rest of the world a formula worth watching with cool street circuits and exciting ovals. I love street circuits and road courses and I also love ovals and I think putting everything together like it was before 1996 when the split happened is the only way the two series will ever survive. People miss the Grand Prix of Long Beach, Detroit, Toronto, and so on. To win such a series with a huge variety of tracks takes a lot of talent and I think the champions of the sport would get a lot of respect unlike they do now. I will watch IRL and Champ Car this season. I watched the Champ Car series last year and I thought it was awesome. Sebastien Bourdia is like my favorite driver now and I’m American and he is French, so I don’t think Americans will no watch is European, Canadian and Latin drivers are in there sport so long as there talented. That’s all we want to see is talented drivers. Half the guys in IRL are Brazilian anyway aren’t they? LoL seriously though I’m sure if the two leagues combined plenty of the American drivers would be able to compete because I think they have the talent. I haven’t met anyone in person here in Detroit or in Canada who doesn’t think that the split between the two leagues is the worse thing that ever happened in America Motor Sports. I know a lot of you are Oval fanatics and that’s all you want to watch but can you kind of get the idea I’m trying to get across to you. I mean your still going to see 8 to 9 oval races a year especially all the big ones. I sure you could survive 7 or 8 street circuits with a lot of American history behind them or couple of road courses. I don’t know let me know what you all think.

I grew up watching Formula 1 as young kid and in 1989 started watching Indy Car racing and loved and fell in love with it as it got bigger and bigger and more exciting every year. I would go and watch the race in detroit in bell ile and even got to watch Alex Zanardi win a race and do his dounuts all around the track right in front of me. I also got to watch Greg Moore race before he died and when Champ Car Split it really ****ed me off and i gave it up till last year when i started watching champ car again. This is why im posting this, its alot of pent up frustration thats built up over the years and with Formula 1 and the GPWC talking about spliting my anger has really surfaced. Let me know what you think guys

[BootsOntheSide]

You won't find many people on here who don't believe that a merger is beneficial, if not absolutely essential, for open-wheel racign to survive as a viable sport in North America. Unfortunately there are some very egotistical people at the top of both championships who would only agree to it if everything was done their way, with them havening overall say on how it's ran. The most likely outcome is either for one series to collapse, or the two to diverse so much that they simply become so different they don't compete directly, in which case both would surely be heavily marginalised.

The ideal in my view would be something like 18 races - 8 ovals and 10 road/street races - to be honest Long Beach, Surfer's and St. Pete's are the only street races I'd want in a limited schedule. These should probably be US-focussed with a couple of visits to Canada and Mexico a year, and maybe the races in Australia and Japan. Forget about Korea, China, Europe and wherever else, make it a North American series for North American fans.

I think it's important to have some US drivers, but the issue is more ocmplicated. In NASCAR, fans can follow drivers from junior regional championships, up to Trucks or Busch, and then to the main Nextel cup - thus building fan loyalty in the long term. Too many drivers have been looking to use ChampCars as a stepping stone or second prize to F1, and a few IRL guys have had their eyes on NASCAR, and somehow a united series needs to be strong enough to prevent this. As an extension of this, some initiatives to help ladder series drivers move up are essential.

[Xpunk75]

I agree Indy Car should not be in Europe, China, im not sure about Korea yet will have to see this year maybe it will be really successful you never know. I gree a race in Japan is important for Engine Suppliers and Australia are huge fans of motor sport. Canada needs at least two races and mexico only needs 1. The rest should be in USA. But I think to be fair to the Oval IRL fans half of the races should be OVALS. I'm sure if they ever do merge that willbe important to IRL for there fans.

[Snips1]

I agree, Indycars belong on ovals and road courses, but PLEEEEASE stop discussing a merger, it will never happen, live with it

[gttouring]

it could happen :P
be it by the dissolving of one or the other or a real merger.
there was one, and there will be one again- or the two will drift into such disparate paths that they will never be recognizable as coming from the same series...

[Xpunk75]

I think another way we have to look at this is Engine suppliers. With Cosworth now owned by Champ Car they have engines for there sport forever. It's no longer a worry for them, unlike IRL who all three engine suppliers are threatening to leave. I think if the fans continue not to show up at the tracks and the engine companies bail IRL may be forced to merge with CHAMP CAR because of not haviing engines to power there race cars. Champ Car made a geinus move to buy up cosworth from Ford, and they seem to have made some good changes because Red Bull Racing was able to be faster then the BMW Williams in Australia last weekend and kept on the pace. Things are looking better and better for Champ Car ever since the new managment came in and saved them. There marketing ploy of getting there races on Spike Tv i think helped the cause now there are like 3 diffrent channels showing there races this season. Speed, Spike, and ABC or was it CBS anyway I can't remember. But for those of you who think the Merge is a Fantasy it could very well happen in the next 3 years. Saddly the IRL history records wont be included because Champ Car owns all the Records from 1979 to now. Theres a Web Page that explains it all http://home.hiwaay.net/~cornutt/irlfaq.html#1.2 its a great site that explains everything and if you check on the Champ Car World Series web site and check there history it shows this http://www.champcarworldseries.com/FrontPage.asp.

[Kicking-back]

I wish it would happen - but the subject is banned for discussion on this forum until such a time as any serious merger talks happen between the series.

I'd expect this discussion will be locked for that reason.

[Xpunk75]

I didn't know that I'm knew but since I already posted it we might as well talk about till they Lock it. I think its dumb that they lock interesting things people want to talk about though.

[Testure]

History shows that these sort of topics degenerate pretty quickly, Xpunk Better to keep the level of conversation at an adult level even if it means we miss out on some interesting arguing. Have a search through the archives.

But, yes, most people here think that one series is required if open-wheel racing in the US is to ever get back to within a fraction of the popularity it once enjoyed. The details are agony, though. You say you like 50-50 ovals-road courses. Some people, however, would like 90% ovals and think 50% road courses helped kill CART. See the difficulties?

[Xpunk75]

And to tell you the Truth that would be fine so long as there was just one league and they race on both types of courses i'd be pretty happy. As far as things getting out of hand on the boards, there just words and I think were all entitle free speech on the internet. Plus this board blocks out swear words so I don't see why topics like these should be locked but that just my opinion.

[trow]

Should the IRL and Champcar merge?

No (is the short answer)!

To merge with something there must be something, and with Champcar there is nothing tangible. The best thing, or closest thing to a "merge" would be if the two companies both felt they had something each other needed. Most of the time it's either money, and a name, or both. Champcar has $0, and is relatively obscure outside of the niche it has become, so no name to boot (is the long answer).

CART had the chance over a year ago to merge with Indy, they didn't ....

As Jack Lemmon said in Grumpy Old Men, "Burn, Baby Burn!"

[GP Racer]

Well, I think things can now be discused in a more civil manner than last years heated debates during the "buyout" of CART. Now that was tense and ugly at times, and I should know, as I was in the thick of it!

But I also don't see this merger happening. IMHO, it was supposed to happen during the buyout. I truly believe that the 3 amigo's only bought CART, which they bought for a song, in order to merge it with the IRL. But I believe Gentilozzi screwed up in the negotiations with TG, and TG rightly told him to take a hike, thereby forcing OWRS to actually race. In other words, I believe, OWRS was never supposed to turn a wheel, or run a race.

Now, these two adversaries will never negotiate together. One of the two series will have to die in order for there to be one series, which I believe may happen. OWRS IMO, simply won't survive.

If there was to be one series, I would like to see it dominated heavily by ovals. I'd like to see no more than 4 or 5 road courses, like the old USAC model, when they were on top. It worked well for them, and only two road races work well for NASCAR. I also think for the sport of IndyCar racing to grow here again, there needs to be more American drivers involved and a better ladder series to get them there, like Boots said. To many of NASCAR's stars, should be our stars!

[Xpunk75]

I don't think Champ Car is really at 0$ or below. I actully think that there doing better then IRL at the moment but those things arn't realesed to the public. I wish we could see the to series Revenues to get an idea of what was going on. I think maybe it is time we gave up hopes of the two merging and hope that they can become so diffrent from each other that they can both be successful but unfortunetly I think one of them will die out. I can't understand then why IRL wants to do Road Courses if they want to be diffrent. Its like there trying to close the gap to Champ Car in order to be more Merge Friendly.

[macdaddy]

As has been mentioned, this topic has been raised pretty much once-a-month for some ten years now. And history has shown, time and time again, that it turns out to be nothing more than bickering amongst ourselves. Thus, this thread will be closed. I'll be more than happy to re-open (all 100 of them) the moment that we have something concrete to discuss.

Sorry, but that's the way it is. And it's our opinion that that's the way it's got to be. For now, at least.

[macdaddy]

Thirteen replies is an unlucky number, thus this one.
We need all the luck we can get.