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9 Apr 2007, 09:58 (Ref:1887072) | #1 | ||
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Historic Sports Sedans race
I know there is a thread about them but having starting in 2004 I felt a fresh thread was needed.
It seem's there are a few people on here who know the location of some cars and their current situation. There is the possibility of a Historic Sports Sedan race at a big Australian Historic race meeting within 12 month's but of course it all depends on getting a reasonable grid together, the organisers are considering giving a class for this category. So IF they got a grid who would/could run? cars, driver's, etc that are out there. Be good to see them out and not with the current car's means they get the attention...so start speaking to anyone you know who has a car and post away! |
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9 Apr 2007, 10:34 (Ref:1887097) | #2 | ||
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If "Historic Sports Sedans" can be recognised by promotors under an "Historic Sports Sedan Register" as part of the Australian Sports Sedan Association(s) there is plenty of scope. Self governed by the ASSA.
If Historic Sports Sedans were to go the Catrgory 5 route through the Historic Commission - it will never happen!!! There is no way the "wood and wire wheel brigade" will ever understand - or recognise - an Historic Sports Sedan without mege grief. |
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9 Apr 2007, 11:03 (Ref:1887113) | #3 | ||
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So Camaroz your saying not interested?
You would prefer to just run under Australian Sports Sedan Association at a National or State level? |
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10 Apr 2007, 07:05 (Ref:1887705) | #4 | ||
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If we're talking historic in the strictest sense ie. like Gp C/A, then practically no car would be eligible! Don't forget that you can pretty much go crazy with a SS, including chopping it up, adding space frames, etc.
I have to agree with Camaroz. Whilst I love the idea, there would have to be a more open level of thought put into eligibility.... |
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Do or do not, there is no try... |
10 Apr 2007, 10:19 (Ref:1887840) | #5 | |||
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Yes!!! I am most interested in Historic Sports Sedans. I am also aware of the constant changes that our cars had between races let alone years, this would make the "eligability" and "specification" impossable for the regementation of Cat 5 within the Historic Commission. I have had many dealings with the Historic Commission and all they are interested in, and have any knowledge of, is pre 74 formula and sports cars from the Marques! Outside that you are seen a a necessary evil! I am gaining even more experience with the CAMS and the Historic Commission with a CoD of a 1980 Group C car. Here, "Homologation Papers" issued by the FIA and ratified by CAMS can be in dispute with the Historic Commission's interpretation - today - let alone next week! Sports Sedans were such a free category (even the BIANTE Series has gone to Spoerts Sedan Log Books to escape the Historic Commission) that to involve them would be self destructive. For Historic Sports Sedans, get everyone together that is interested, get the cars together under the ASSA, get it going, (invites to MCM, TCF, PFtP etc) and let CAMS and the Historic Commission come to us! In the mean time, if there are enough cars to strike up an interest with the promoter of an Historic Race Meeting they can always 'invite' a class (category) to compete. Cheers. |
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Opinion is 'dime-a-dozen'. Guidance is 'priceless'. |
10 Apr 2007, 20:50 (Ref:1888483) | #6 | ||
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You could always take another path with the AASA instead of CAMS? Always an option that is there....
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Adam Ronke Operations Manager Winton Motor Raceway |
10 Apr 2007, 22:03 (Ref:1888569) | #7 | ||
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How many of the older (70's & 80's) Sports Sedans are still in one piece??
Many of them were gutted to rebuild F5000's like Thommo's VW although I believe Thommo did rescue the body shell. The AASA route would make things easier but the Wooden Wheel brigade will have to realise one day that some historic vehicles were built pre War (Iraq) and not just WW2 or Vietnam |
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10 Apr 2007, 22:10 (Ref:1888576) | #8 | ||
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Hi Adam,
The AASA is in my view the best option for the ASSA (no play on abreviations intended). If the ASSA was to run its Championship in the AMRS it would be able to build itself back to a feature class (and TV)! |
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11 Apr 2007, 00:13 (Ref:1888650) | #9 | ||
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Spot on Camaroz, and they could also find themselves a feature at the Australian Historic Motor Festival at Winton in October each year. I use to love watching the Sports Sedans when I was a kid (back in the 80's) they were my favourite class, and in some respects still are. I remember watching some footage somewhere of a race at Calder between Barry Bray, Bob Jolly and I can't remember the other driver, it was really amazing racing back then. I will see if I can dig up the footage, I think it was on Youtube.
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Adam Ronke Operations Manager Winton Motor Raceway |
11 Apr 2007, 00:17 (Ref:1888656) | #10 | ||
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FOUND IT - Wouldn't it be good to see this sort of racing again!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-TdrDAV3P4 |
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Adam Ronke Operations Manager Winton Motor Raceway |
12 Apr 2007, 10:16 (Ref:1889598) | #11 | |||
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13 Apr 2007, 00:37 (Ref:1890102) | #12 | ||
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My impression is the current Sports Sedan competitors are pretty happy where they are at the moment. My problem with Historic Sports Sedans( I was a major mover and shaker with Camaroz in getting this going, with my marathon post on the subject), is where do we draw the line on what is Historic and what is not?
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13 Apr 2007, 01:31 (Ref:1890114) | #13 | |||
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Sports Sedans do self govern - the new rules and current traction control debate is proof of this. I consider myself a state level competitor but I will run the national events every chance I get, sure I'm nowhere near the front but the competition is great. The unfortunate fact is most state level competitors won't compete at national rounds because they won't win anything!!! Simple as that. I've heard it a thousand times - "why should I race there and finish 12th when at a state round I'll finish top three". SO WHAT!!! Who cares if you're racing for 1st,12th of 25th as long as the racing is good. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I get the feeling a lot of competitors like being a big fish in a small pond!! It is up to the competitors to bet of their backsides and race their cars or sell them to someone who will!!! CAMS or AASA won't make a difference. (I will point out that the recent CAMS QLD championship had more sports sedan entries then the previous AASA racemeeting but I digress). Any way back on topic - The people I know pushing Historic Sports Sedans are very determined to make it happen and all are working hard to get the catagory approved by CAMS. |
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Rover Vitesse Sports Sedan 44 |
13 Apr 2007, 03:46 (Ref:1890155) | #14 | ||
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Ever competed at a AASA event? Try one and you will see why they are considered better. They seem to have a completely different atmosphere
As for being cheaper, the sanction fees are less, and licence fees are less and the vehicle passports are even cheaper. |
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Adam Ronke Operations Manager Winton Motor Raceway |
13 Apr 2007, 04:06 (Ref:1890157) | #15 | |||
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AASA has given people the freedom to choose, some people like to compete under the CAMS system, others AASA and good on you for providing that option there Adam!!!! Whether AASA meetings are considered better would be surely a subjective thing and we know where your alliegences lie Let's get back on topic eh - something about Historic Sports Sedans from memory?? Last edited by FalconEL; 13 Apr 2007 at 04:13. |
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"I still can't spin the wheels all the way down the straight in high gear", Mark Donohue (The Unfair Advantage) commenting to the Porsche engineers on the 1100hp 1973 Can-Am Porsche 917-30 when asked whether the car has enough horsepower yet!! |
13 Apr 2007, 06:47 (Ref:1890192) | #16 | |||
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13 Apr 2007, 08:47 (Ref:1890247) | #17 | |||
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If you do not know about relative costs-- are you qualified to comment-- may not have been a bad idea to find out before jumping into print. Nothing like having your head in the sand-- how many Cams events are available to you in one year in Queensland? How many have you ever run Interstate? One last observation for Robert Ryan-- isn't "Historic" Sports Sedan an oxymoron? |
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13 Apr 2007, 10:48 (Ref:1890311) | #18 | |||
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13 Apr 2007, 21:13 (Ref:1890729) | #19 | |||
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An Historic Sports Sedan is a car that has not competed for 10 years? The car has not been up-dated in that period? The Original owner (and/or) builder can verify its specification? Cars are restored in spirit? |
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14 Apr 2007, 06:57 (Ref:1890852) | #20 | |||
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yeh I'm biased ...
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Love to see the Fiat at speed in the AIR speed bowl again. Last edited by cavvy; 14 Apr 2007 at 07:01. |
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more torque than a climate change conference |
14 Apr 2007, 20:26 (Ref:1891325) | #21 | |||
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14 Apr 2007, 23:56 (Ref:1891462) | #22 | ||
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How about Doug Dunster's Torana from Benella way, its been around a long time and still makes the odd appearence.
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"..when you are racing, it's life.....anything that happens before or after is just waiting." Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney |
16 Apr 2007, 07:50 (Ref:1892733) | #23 | |||
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And the emphasis should always be on enjoying old race cars, and not winning races. Presenting the cars as they originally raced (which in the case of many old SS's, would be fairly broad!), and appreciating the cars for what they are. Old Sports Sedans deserve their place in Australia's history as much as any other historic race car, probably more so than many, as most were designed, built, funded, and raced by Australians. |
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16 Apr 2007, 08:06 (Ref:1892745) | #24 | ||
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And (seeing as I'm on a role), as Sports Sedan races were historically all-comer races, ie, anything with a roof, why wouldn't Historic Sports Sedan rules be based on the same free spirit regulations? Why not alloy any touring cars that raced within the years you have defined (except early V8 Supercars)? Group C Touring cars were regular starters in Aussie SS races, and several raced here in NZ SS races during the '70s, as our season has always been over the summer months.
More and more 'historic' Sports Sedans, OSCA (Open Saloon Car Ass), All-comer, and Shell Sport ('70s 2 litre SS) cars are appearing in historic racing events here in NZ. There is always a place found for them. Check out this amazing piece of wild Kiwi racing history: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...n-96186257.htm |
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16 Apr 2007, 08:53 (Ref:1892772) | #25 | |||
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with new tyres as well |
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