Ovals

[Peter Mallett]

As a Brit I find the concept of oval racing a bit of an enigma. I know about Brooklands but the idea behind that was to provide a constant speed testing ground for cars and motorcycles. However in the USA oval racing became the norm.

My question is really why did the format remain in the USA but die out in Europe?

[fines]

In the US it was just a convenient way to go racing. Remember, those ovals were mostly dirt tracks right into the sixties, and as such they were mainly used for horse racing. When autoracing became more popular, they just went on and paved those horse tracks.

[Joe Fan]

Peter, I imagine much of this was out of European tastes and traditions more than anything else but I also think that the high banked Monza oval, AVUS and Montlhery claimed enough drivers lives that they were felt to be too dangerous in an already dangerous sport.

[Hans.ca]

The backbone of racing in the USA is the oval track. Motor racing attracts more spectators in The USA then any other sport. But it is the small 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 mile tracks that operate every wednesday, friday and saturday night. It might be on dirt or paved track, stock cars or midgets, 1/2 milers or any other type of car. It is a family sport, a night out for very little money. Most drivers can't make a living on it but they still continue to race. The goal is NASCAR, USAC, WORLD OF OUTLAW or CART racing.
For the uninitiated it is hard to get exited about oval racing. My own opinion used to be that only road racing was worth my time. However as I got to know more about all the other types of racing I came to the same conclusion that Graham Hill did in my interview "a racing driver is a racing driver no matter what style of car he drives". This is quoted from memorie and you can check it out in park ferme.
Even drag racing is fun when you get to know what it takes to get a car down the 1/4 mile in less then 5 seconds.

[Mekola]

And now when in Europe they made ovals in England (Rockingham) and Germany (Lausitzring), why don't the Italians will revive this banked Monza oval track for another CART meeting in Italy? It will be wonderful!!!

[Vitesse]

Unfortunately Mekola, the Monza banking is in a very poor state of repair and I think I read somewhere that it may actually have to be demolished on safety grounds.

And, for what it's worth, my personal opinion is that two ovals in Europe is already one too many ...

Anyway, CART is not really popular in Europe except in Britain and Germany: the British interest can probably be put down to Mansell, Blundell and Franchitti doing well over several years, but I've never really understood the German angle. The relative popularity in Britain can be judged by the fact that the digital British Eurosport, aimed at the UK and Ireland, shows more CART than the main Eurosport TV channel.

[Peter Mallett]

I think Joe Fan may have something. Motor races really started in Europe and were conducted on public roads, such as they were. That meant that Brooklands with its banking was an enigma even in those early days. Montlhery and Monza were used far later than Brooklands but I don't think they could really be compared to Brooklands or any other banked circuit because (I could be wrong) I think they only had one end banked. The rest of the track was "normal" configuration.

So, could it be the "showman" element which we see in US motorsport today, which really dictated the popularity of oval racing?

[Darren Galpin]

Both Montlhery and Monza had full ovals: see


Montlhery

[Peter Mallett]

So were they still in use after Brooklands was closed?

BTW thanks for the maps.

[Darren Galpin]

Yes. The Monza oval was used for the 1957/1958 Race of Two Worlds, otherwise known as Monzanapolis, where the Indy cars came to Monza to race the Europeans (see http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/archive/f1/rotw.html for an article on the race). Part of the Montlhery oval with chicanes was used for GT racing in the 1990s, but I don't know until when they used the full oval.

[yelwoci]

Please also remember that here in Europe and especially UK the small oval (1/4 mile) format is still strong.
The stadiums run dog racing, dirt bike (you know 80bhp, 2 wheels, no brakes, steel and chain barriers), in addition to the car racing.

I went down to my local track a while back (Wimbeldon, London) expecting it to be a poor experience....circuit racer snobbery.

Ok it was full of car trade,their women and 'rough-necks', but the evening was great fun and ended up with a 30 minute demolition derby.

4hrs for £10 plus refreshments.
Much of the seating was indoors, all was covered.

Not bad at all.

No wonder the big stuff is popular in the US.

IanC

[Joe Fan]

Originally posted by yelwoci
I went down to my local track a while back (Wimbeldon, London) expecting it to be a poor experience....circuit racer snobbery.

Woah! Circuit racer snobery? Over here in the U.S., oval racing is more popular and most of the fans here think that snobbish race fans are the road racing fans.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
Yes. The Monza oval was used for the 1957/1958 Race of Two Worlds, otherwise known as Monzanapolis, where the Indy cars came to Monza to race the Europeans (see http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/archive/f1/rotw.html for an article on the race). Part of the Montlhery oval with chicanes was used for GT racing in the 1990s, but I don't know until when they used the full oval.

AFAIK the Montlhery oval was never used for racing,only testing/record breaking.The Monza modern-1955-oval was only ever used for the 57 & 58 USAC v Europe races.Was any race held on the circuit depicted above,ie,combined circuit with variantes?

[Darren Galpin]

The full 10-kilometre circuit was used for the Italian automobile Grand Prix races in 1955, 1956, 1960 and 1961 (i.e. oval + road course). Von Trips was killed on the oval in the 1961 event, and the oval was not used thereafter.

[Rob29]

First practice for 63 GP was held on combined circuit,second day switched to road circuit only after some teams complained cars were falling apart.Sports car races,1000km,were held up to early seventies.

[Allan Weyman]

What has happened to the ASCAR series. Why do we in Britain always think we can do so much better than the Yanks. They invented NASCAR and run to a tried and tested format, why did the ASCAR people just copy their regs, use there engine builders or at least their tried and tested specifications?

No it seems some bright spark has to design a lighter obviously quicker chassis, with lower profile tyres, all one body shape and the same engine, result Rockingham surface we are told has too grippy a surface therefore the G forces are greater than anticipated net result all the oil in most of the engines climbs out and grenades the thing. I suspect if they had stuck to the NASCAR format with the cars weighing at 3800lbs (I believe) and on hardish high profile tyres with carb restrictors this would not have happened and there would not be 40 guys with race cars 40 grand out of pocket and no wher eto go.

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Darren Galpin
The full 10-kilometre circuit was used for the Italian automobile Grand Prix races in 1955, 1956, 1960 and 1961 (i.e. oval + road course). Von Trips was killed on the oval in the 1961 event, and the oval was not used thereafter.

Von Trips was killed on the road course, just before the parabolica

[Jozo]

I was wondering if 1961 really was the last time the full 10k Monza circuit was used since in the movie "Grand Prix", which I believe is from 1966, they did race on this circuit. The main character, Sarti, was killed crashing from the oval down to the road course.

[Rob29]

Sorry Jozo, but the race was on the road circuit.Only the filming (fictional) was on the banking.If you look closely you will note that only the fake ex F.Junior cars appear in the banking scenes. I think the 'Sarti''Ferrari' must be the only car ever to go over the top of the banking.It was fired from a cannon.