Brad Jones and his BA

Alan Jones · 22 Jul 2003, 08:23 (Ref:668028)

So what did you all think Brad's comments on the telecast last Sunday. He claimed to be having alot of trouble dialling in the rear end of the BA and said he had an easier time setting up the AU. Is this the reason SBR are the only team with a Ford able to do the business consistently ? Have they managed to solve that one already or is Brad just saving face ? This is the first I've heard of a specific problem with the BA.

Conrod Kieron · 22 Jul 2003, 08:54 (Ref:668050)

I think he said his AU was quicker than his BA atm and I do recall JB saying the BA was more pitch sensitive.

When you watch some of the BA's get on the brakes/accelerate etc, there is a fair amount of lift on the front but obviously whatever the problem is with BJ's car it is solvable and must be related specifically to his car as JB doesn't suffer as badly. Possibly saving face I think

**GTRMagic** · 22 Jul 2003, 09:57 (Ref:668104)

Pitch sensitivity is bad in the BA... its a fundamental design feature of the huhe bulldozer-like front splitter...

SBR's cars sit a lot better on the road than most, the ride heights seem more constant, and with Marcos being somehow smoother on the braking (yet I am sure still just as forceful as Rusty in this area) the SBR cars dont lose front aero under brakes like the white Ozemail thing does, and the 3 FPR cars....

Brad still has his 2002 AU, so if he wanted to be a clever d!ck he could always swap back to it

Mattracer · 22 Jul 2003, 21:27 (Ref:668817)

But he can't swap back now can he, once the season has started?

Agreed, the SBR BAs do sit better and seem more "pushed down" at the front particularly under acceleration from slow corners, ie turn 3 Qld Raceway. Regarding the braking stability, I would have thought that the mechanical grip played more a part in that ratherthan aero grip. Aero would provide benefit when transferring from brake tothrottle application across the apex in that crucial transition from braking to acceleration. That would be the time gain.

**GTRMagic** · 23 Jul 2003, 00:22 (Ref:668916)

I didnt think there was a problem in swapping from a BA back to an AU in a force majeure situation, and being a TEGA board member may have smoothed this a little..

What happens in the front aero on the cars is that the air goes both over and under the wing creating downforce. The higher the ride height, the more air that gets under the splitter and the more effectively it works

But when the car decelerates, and the nose dives with spring and damper compression under threshold braking, the nose of the car, and therefore the spoiler reduces the front ride height, meaning that the previous aero downforce is substantially reduced.

This induces understeer into the car purely from the loss of aero downforce in the front.....

Especially when cars lik eteh FPR trio and the DJR mob are dragging their noses on teh ground at most of the hard stops...

marcus · 23 Jul 2003, 03:49 (Ref:669005)

no the rules state once you run a BA or VY you are not allowed to swap back except in the cases of a write off or something like that , and i dont think brad is gonna throw that much money out the window just to run the AU.

who knows what the drama is but SBR certainly have solved the problem so its not impossible , im sure in time or by next season most BA drivers will have a handle on their cars.

RaceTime · 23 Jul 2003, 04:43 (Ref:669020)

Who determines if the car is a write-off? Consider that insurance companies can write-off a road car if the front plastic bumber has been scratched these days

**GTRMagic** · 23 Jul 2003, 04:45 (Ref:669021)

Brad Jones should go play in PROCAR, if the driver cant set the car up properly over there, and is therefore slow, a bit of a whinge at the management of that series will soon see a favourable parity adjustment towards then :biggrin:

Mattracer · 24 Jul 2003, 02:10 (Ref:669933)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic

Especially when cars lik eteh FPR trio and the DJR mob are dragging their noses on teh ground at most of the hard stops...

Ingall's BA had the undertray touching the road more than Ambrose's on the heavy stops. Just something I noticed over the weekend.

**GTRMagic** · 24 Jul 2003, 02:22 (Ref:669936)

You would be right in that... hence the slight speed difference between the two.... Rusty hasnt adjusted his driving style to match the SBR-way just yet

GTV27 · 24 Jul 2003, 03:22 (Ref:669951)

I think that the closer the splitter is to the ground, the more downforce that is generated (but due to reduced airflow under the car). This is at odds with the wing theory that is (correctly I think) described above, because a front splitter is not really a wing.

I have noticed that the SBR BA's do seem to pitch under accell and braking quite a lot - which the HRT cars have also done for years, and it doesn't seemed to have affected them too much.

Mattracer · 24 Jul 2003, 03:46 (Ref:669963)

It was widely-known that Skaife preferred the rear springs to be softer than Jim Richrads did when they were at GMS with he VP/VR Commodores. I must admit that this pitch sensitivity does not seem as marked on the VY- the double A arm front end would affec that, no doubt. The VP model especially squatted at the back out of slow corners. IIRC, TC speculation was rife at that time levelled at many in the class, subsequenly proven to be scurrillous rumours.

**GTRMagic** · 24 Jul 2003, 03:48 (Ref:669964)

The bulldozer front lip causes most of the BA's aero issues.... some teams know what they are doing, others buy boats

Mattracer · 24 Jul 2003, 03:50 (Ref:669966)

While we're on aero, why does the Holden and Ford still have different rear wing designs, when it is plain to see that the rear quarter panels and bootlids on both current new models are much flatter and squarer? :confused:

Centrally-mounted for Holden and end-mounted for Ford, that is.

**GTRMagic** · 24 Jul 2003, 04:00 (Ref:669970)

Its got something to do with the air coming off the roof & rear window.... the designs on the 2 cars are different, so the wing frame shape was seen as important for some reason

Mattracer · 24 Jul 2003, 04:26 (Ref:669974)

Which of the two designs (centre or side) is the better? History shows that Holden has been more adept at power down and Ford has been struggling with the AU rear grip. Mechanical grip-wise, Holden has been ahead as well but add the a arm and the Ford is edging ahead.

So, you've got a VX that is balanced at both ends but still leads the pointscore somewhat controversially because of the maths, an AU that had good high speed aero but a wrongly-executed front splitter with a more efficient front suspension and hamstrung by its aero, a VY which hasn't seen the full light of day with the biggest team yet and two BAs running away whenever they can and hiding.

So, when shall we see a parity review added to that mix?

Conrod Kieron · 24 Jul 2003, 05:53 (Ref:670003)

Matt, since the AU the Falcon has had superior rear downforce so you could say its endplate design is better, but in reality I suspect its simply in the design of the wing itself.

Onlooker · 24 Jul 2003, 07:17 (Ref:670037)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Its got something to do with the air coming off the roof & rear window.... the designs on the 2 cars are different, so the wing frame shape was seen as important for some reason

It is more likely that TEGA wanted to make the cars appear different so pushed Ford to stay as is and keep the end plates.The pair were trimmed to match so all is fair in reality.

**GTRMagic** · 24 Jul 2003, 07:25 (Ref:670040)

Arguably the Holden version is more crash-safe.... the Fordy boys seem to clip things with the tail and collapse one side of the end plates....

Interestingly, before one of the teams went out for the race, they literally jumped up and down on the front splitter, and held themselves up by their bodyweight by grabbing the rear wing.....

RaceTime · 24 Jul 2003, 08:13 (Ref:670069)

What? ANd AVESCO didn;t penalise them for strengthening these areas?

GTV27 · 25 Jul 2003, 04:28 (Ref:670799)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Arguably the Holden version is more crash-safe.... the Fordy boys seem to clip things with the tail and collapse one side of the end plates....

Interestingly, before one of the teams went out for the race, they literally jumped up and down on the front splitter, and held themselves up by their bodyweight by grabbing the rear wing.....

What? An official did this? I'd get out of the car and snot the @#$%.

**GTRMagic** · 25 Jul 2003, 04:31 (Ref:670801)

No, 2 team members did it.... not tiny little pipsqueaks either.....

Their cars did VERY well in the race so maybe its just something new and innovative the other teams should try

RaceTime · 25 Jul 2003, 06:25 (Ref:670844)

Or was part of the drinking ritual left over from the night before!

Mattracer · 26 Jul 2003, 01:07 (Ref:671578)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
No, 2 team members did it.... not tiny little pipsqueaks either.....

Their cars did VERY well in the race so maybe its just something new and innovative the other teams should try

Who, Brett "Crusher" Murray and Russell with contra portfolio under his arm?

**GTRMagic** · 26 Jul 2003, 03:41 (Ref:671635)

Not even Rusty can lift that

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