Nelson Piquet

Yoong Montoya · 20 Jul 2003, 21:10 (Ref:666536)

No one seems to rate Nelson Piquet that highly. Why is that? He won 3 WDCs, beating Alan Jones, Alain Prost and Nigel Mansell in the process. He also won the first Brabham title for 14 years. So why is he always rated lower than 1 time champion Nigel Mansell? Is it about personality as much as talent? I don't think any other multiple world champion has been so underrated.

Armco Bender · 20 Jul 2003, 21:14 (Ref:666542)

Oh so that was you running down the track with a Nelson is better than Nigel banner in your kilt.

Yoong Montoya · 20 Jul 2003, 21:21 (Ref:666549)

Quote:

Originally posted by Armco Bender
Oh so that was you running down the track with a Nelson is better than Nigel banner in your kilt.

D'oh! Only joking.

Anyway, did anyone actually find out what was on that banner? Was it "Come on Barrichello - you specialise in dealing with protestors and safety cars!"

Armco Bender · 20 Jul 2003, 21:28 (Ref:666563)

Nelson was big in his day,but that was a few years ago now,I guess in Brazill hes still really big still,as Jones is in Aussie and Prost would be in France.Time moves on however.

paulzinho · 20 Jul 2003, 21:28 (Ref:666564)

IMO opinion Piquet was one of the best ever, you don't become a 3 time WDC by luck, especially in the turbo era.

Stevespurr · 20 Jul 2003, 21:53 (Ref:666591)

Piquet left F1 with a lot he was a brilliant tactican in the days before you had a manager in your ears telling you how to win the race

nameless · 20 Jul 2003, 22:18 (Ref:666627)

i didnt really see piquet drive much, but was he an unpopular driver as that could explain why he is not mentioned so much these days, drivers like prost and senna had their legions of fans and those against them like schumacher does nowadays, did piquet have this love/hate thing with fans.

neilpurdies>son · 20 Jul 2003, 22:21 (Ref:666630)

Quote:

Originally posted by Stevespurr
Piquet left F1 with a lot he was a brilliant tactican in the days before you had a manager in your ears telling you how to win the race

Or traction control,launch control,and all the other electronic gizmos

krt917 · 20 Jul 2003, 22:26 (Ref:666634)

I'm afraid I've never been a fan of Piquet's so I guess that puts me in a good position to answer this. There are several reasons why I don't rate him as highly as those mentioned above (though he is still a great, it's all relative!):
- He tended to win his championships with consistency rather than wins. I've always preferred the Champion to be the man who won the most races in a given season and Nelson wasn't really that sort of driver. In '87, for example, he won 3 races to Mansell's 6 and still took the title. You could argue that its not his fault the points system worked like that, but I think it has meant that he has 3 titles to his name which over-exagerates his abilities.
- He didn't seem to have quite such of a races attitude as the likes of Ayrton and Nige either. For example, in the final round of '83 he slowed - whilst leading - as soon as he knew Prost was out and therefore gave away a win. I believe Stirling Moss, amongst others, was appalled at this, and it rather summed up the approach that the Championship is more important than race wins. Obviously, it is a matter of opinion, but I've never found that a particularly appealing trait in someone who is supposed to be a RACING driver.
- His behaviour outside of the car was also a bit dodgey, though he was far from alone in that respect. Particularly loathsome for me were his comments about Senna's sexuality, the 'ugliness' of Mansell's wife and his outbursts to Patrick Head and Frank Williams when Mansell proved a bit quicker than he had expected.

Don't get me wrong, Piquet was a great driver - you can't win 23 GPs without being a bit handy! - but I just don't think that he was as good as Prost, Mansell or Senna, and his approach was unappealing to me. I don't know if that speaks for any others, but I think that may help explain why he's not talked about in quite the same way.

**Spudgun** · 20 Jul 2003, 22:30 (Ref:666639)

He did manage to win the WDC 3 times, but he also threw the car off the road quite alot. Especially his Williams days. Not the way of a 3 times World Champion, but he did it somehow.

It was his attidude off the track that soured alot of people.

Mekola · 21 Jul 2003, 00:51 (Ref:666735)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
No one seems to rate Nelson Piquet that highly. Why is that? He won 3 WDCs, beating Alan Jones, Alain Prost and Nigel Mansell in the process.

You'd better say "he beated Carlos Reutemann in the process". Jones pretended but never was a serious contender in 1981.

marcus · 21 Jul 2003, 02:44 (Ref:666758)

Quote:

Originally posted by Armco Bender
Nelson was big in his day,but that was a few years ago now,I guess in Brazill hes still really big still,as Jones is in Aussie and Prost would be in France.Time moves on however.

LMAO OH MY GOD!!!!!

Jonesy big in Australia , thats the funniest thing Ive ever heard , the only thing big about him is his attitude and his guts , no one even knows who he is

Piquet was good but I dont know why he isnt held in such high esteem as others like Mansell,Prost and Senna.

I guess its like hakkinen , he was very good but will he be held as high as Schumacher , I dunno it just seems like thats the way it is.

DieRitter · 21 Jul 2003, 04:55 (Ref:666783)

Guys.... Who really followed F1 during the 80s knows that Piquet is a legend.

I don't think he was the quickest... But he was a great car developer, bright strategist and had loads of attitude... Ask Bernie who was his best driver at Brabham!

The guy developed the tyre warmer and alongside Gordon Murray introduced re-fuelling at pitstops into F1...

I still have an old F1 Racing Mag with an interview with Prost... FYI, he raced Piquet and ranked him well above Nigel Mansell.

Get a tape of Piquet X Senna in 86 and let me know what you think... Or even check out the veteran Piquet winning races with an ordinary Benetton.

Ralf · 21 Jul 2003, 05:02 (Ref:666786)

I know Gomick is a huge fan so he could best explain it.
It was a bit before my time but was it because he hung around too long in uncompetitive cars before retiring?
A bit like Villeneuve is at the moment.

But you're right, when the talk about the true greats Nelson is rarely mentioned for some strange reason.

Mr V · 21 Jul 2003, 10:17 (Ref:666921)

Quote:

Originally posted by Armco Bender
Nelson was big in his day,but that was a few years ago now,I guess in Brazill hes still really big still,

One problem i see with that for NP, and that is that Senna will always be bigger in Brazil.

With regards to the Piquet/Mansell debate, although Nelson won 3 WDC's to Nigel's 1, Mansell could quite easily been 3 times WDC. (tyre failure in 86, broken back in 87 at Japan) and looking at their careers more closely.....

Piquet.... 207 starts, 23 wins, 24 poles, 481 points

Mansell... 191 starts, 32 wins, 32 poles, 480 points

So, with the exception of the most important thing (the 2 extra WDC's for NP) Mansell out does him elsewhere, and their points total couldn't have been any closer!

DieRitter · 21 Jul 2003, 10:38 (Ref:666932)

But Mansell had the super Williams in 92... NO RIVALS! So the stats between him and piquet just apply up to 87.

I love Mansell... Much quicker than Piquet in 86, but Prost ended up getting the WDC... 87, Quicker than Piquet again... but Piquet was more intelligent and more respected by the Honda engineers.

Result? Piquet the champion took the Honda engine in his bag and moved to Lotus.

He could win more if he hadn't turned down Ron Dennis' offer... Lucky Senna!

DieRitter · 21 Jul 2003, 10:43 (Ref:666935)

Most of the expectators today started watching F1 during the 90s... when Piquet was retiring.

The same for me... I started at the end of the 70s... so my references start from Gilles Villeneuve on...

Gee... hard not to feel emotional about the Turbo era... Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Rosberg, Alboreto... Mansell, Senna! What a time!

EERO · 21 Jul 2003, 11:24 (Ref:666970)

My first impression of Piquet was the 1979 USGP at the Glen-the race in which Gilles was running 6 seconds a lap faster in the rain than anyone else. I arrived early Saturday morning at the track to find out that young Piquet had set a time that put him on the front row. Who was this guy?????? After Lauda retired from Brabham Piquet was thrust into the leadership role and took a moribund team and revitalised it. He won his first race a year later an the WDC the year after that.

Maybe Piquet didn't have the hellbent for leather attitude of Gilles-but he understood that he was racing in a Championship and that in the end consistency is what counts.

david_james2000 · 21 Jul 2003, 12:12 (Ref:667029)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
So why is he always rated lower than 1 time champion Nigel Mansell? Is it about personality as much as talent? I don't think any other multiple world champion has been so underrated.

This one is easy Mansell was a fighter no matter what car he was in he would be there(apart from his few races for mclaren but he didnt fit the car). When Piquet was at lotus he did nothing much and it was all down hill from there apart from 3?? win's when he was at Benetton

**Aysedasi** · 21 Jul 2003, 12:27 (Ref:667051)

Quote:

Originally posted by DieRitter

Gee... hard not to feel emotional about the Turbo era... Prost, Lauda, Piquet, Rosberg, Alboreto... Mansell, Senna! What a time!

Isn't it just.

In comparison to the largely sanitised modern version, it makes those of us who enjoyed GP racing in the turbo era realise how lucky we were.

(Just like those who enjoyed it in the 80s, 70s, 60s, 50's...........)

DieRitter · 21 Jul 2003, 13:19 (Ref:667123)

Quote:

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
So why is he always rated lower than 1 time champion Nigel Mansell?

I don't think that Mansell would be rated higher than Piquet... But that's my personal opinion. And please don't take me bad because I always liked to watch the red 5 too.

It took Mansell 72 races to win... Yep, his Lotus wasn't much better than the one Piquet got in 88/89

Piquet's speed finished when he crashed in Imola/87...

Mansell remained at Williams the following year... Not very impressive...

Mansell went to Ferrari alongside "Le Professeur"... Not very impressive either.

Adelaide 1990... who remembers that? What a race!!!! And look: I'm a Prost fan!!!! I guess that the Brazilian smart ass had a point to prove

1991 was a little better... Even though Canada was fun to watch (who remembers the result???) Mansell almost got the title again... but when Williams got the speed... Too late! Senna had far too many points ahead!

1992... yeah. Easy! And I won't quote Nikki Lauda!

But I repeat... NO DOUBT MANSELL WAS QUICKER THAN PIQUET in 87!

Mansell had the speed... Piquet had the brains.

Mr V · 21 Jul 2003, 13:34 (Ref:667143)

Quote:

Originally posted by DieRitter
Mansell remained at Williams the following year... Not very impressive...

Who could have been impressive in with a JUDD engine

but still managed 2 2nd places.

Quote:

Originally posted by DieRitter
Mansell went to Ferrari alongside "Le Professeur"... Not very impressive either.

First he went to Ferrari alongside Berger, and scored 40 (??) of Ferrari's 59 points that season.

DieRitter · 21 Jul 2003, 13:38 (Ref:667149)

And Berger was a great driver

But I don't wanna be unfair.. everyone knows what happened in Imola that year!

Don't take me bad, Mansell will be always one of the greatest... The best overtakings I've ever seen in my life were his!

**Spudgun** · 21 Jul 2003, 13:52 (Ref:667160)

Quote:

Originally posted by DieRitter

Mansell remained at Williams the following year... Not very impressive...

Mansell went to Ferrari alongside "Le Professeur"... Not very impressive either.

Now now, at the end of 1987 Williams lost the Honda engine and were stuck with Judd V8's for 1988 and as for Ferrari Mansell was parked on the side of the road most of the time. That Ferrari was on grass more often than on the tarmac!

I remember at the time I though that wasn't a good decision going to Ferrari at that point in time.

But I would give my right arm to go back to the time when Piquet and Mansell were giving it their all in identical cars. 1987 British GP says it all!

**Spudgun** · 21 Jul 2003, 13:57 (Ref:667165)

oh v,v,v....

I took too long composing my post (that's what happens when you;re juggling work and Ten-tenths!) and you beat me to it..

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