Why does Mazda (LMP2) even bother?

[awegrzyn]

There is no point to create so much PR (b.s.) for almost 2 years around the deal and then be as fast as a 6 year old Viper from GT1 class. Look at Live Timing for Portland. That Mazda sits one spot ahead of the Viper in 12. Waste of money in my opinion and what I hate the most is the x number of fake articles
saying how the team is happy with the improvments made and stuff like that while they look slower and slower on the track.

[19dodge]

they have to start somewhere. The team is going to use a diffrent engine builder starting at Road America, to see if that can help them. Its not the chassis or Driver's fault. Its the engine, and they are determined to fix that

and they are getting faster and faster. But the problem is the competition is also getting quicker..

[Tim Northcutt]

Brother....


Give them time....the package has just 4 races under its belt...the new builder should help them get more power....

I'm glad that Mazda has taken the step to return....

I will tell you that the car sounds great in person....

[awegrzyn]

I heard the sound myself, amazing, but the sound does not justify the investment. On top of that, I would say they get slower and slower. When I went to Lime Rock, it seemed as if they were running around 300 hp only. GT2 cars were overtaking them.

I do not blame the car or the drivers. I blame the companies behind the project. Clearly, there was little research and testing done up front. How can you not know you are completely off the pace before you start racing? Makes no sense. They should go after a different engine builder during the testing phase not half into the season.

[jhansen]

I agree that the program is very young. The chassis is proven and the drivers are sound. However, it seems a bit half-hearted to me. I have several questions:

1. While the chassis is good, is it good with this engine in it? (ie. they were not designed with each other in mind)

2. Why isn't Mazda building the engines themselves?

3. Just how much investment is actually going behind this program?

[Tim Northcutt]

All three are very good questions, jhansen...

I've been asking myself those same questions since that program was announced...

I think they will see inprovement....let's just see how quickly it comes...

[jhansen]

I do not doubt that they will improve. I just feel they could be making much quicker progress. My concern is about Mazda's motivation in this project. I feel that their backing is minimal and just enough to get the entry into the field. Hope I'm wrong. Ideally I would like them to come out swinging in 2006 with the experiences found from 2005.

[skycafe]

I wondered about the level of Mazda involvement also. Toe in water?

I can't believe engine builder is going to make the huge leap that it looks like it would take. If the restrictor is too restrictive, then lobbying for an easing of the restrictor would seem to make sense. The Saleen and Maserati were given this, I think the Mazda merits investigation in that regard also.

I hope they stick around and become competive as it would add a lot more to the P2 field. It would be nice to see them mixing it up with Porsche and the AER engine cars.

[tlracing]

Isn't that approach often the way with Japanese manufacturers? Spend a year quietly 'evolving' before coming in full-on in the following season...

[jhansen]

I hope they stick around as well. My questions stem from not really knowing much about the team and casual observations.

Not to mention, it will be nice to hear that rotary come Laguna Seca.

[Brian W Keske]

Last time I heard someone from Mazda talk about the 'slow start' (cannot remember who it was) they said expectations were in check. Never figured they would compete the first year, and that basically this was a developmental season for them....I would expect them to become stronger as the years go along.

They don't seem very concerned, but it would be nice to see them doing a bit better from a fans point of view.

[MulsanneMike]

As I've been told, the B-K Motorsports C65 uses a C60 rear end due to the speed in which the deal was put together. There literally weren't enough parts around the shop at Courage to create a proper C65 for this effort. So that means the chassis is around 100 lbs. heavier than say Miracle's car. The team has recently met with IMSA and the ACO and are pushing for an increase in the diameter of the restrictor. The 3-rotor is breathing through a 49.1 mm restrictor and it is effectively choked to only 400 hp. This is a traditional problem with rotary engines and one that those running them have constantly had try and edcuate the rules writers about, rotaries are more effected than equivalent powered piston engines by the restrictor. So the team is pushing for a larger restrictor as well as increased fuel capacity. No word yet on if any of these changes will be implemented but they seem confident. Here's to hoping.

[skycafe]

Thanks Mike! Do you know if they have plans to retrofit the lighter C65 rear end in the future?

[Fogelhund]

I seem to recall that the Audi R8R's were pretty slow in their first year as well... not saying but....

[19dodge]

I believe the team hopes to get a second C65 Chassis for either the end of this year, or the start of next year. I remember reading something about it somewhere.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Thanks Mike! Do you know if they have plans to retrofit the lighter C65 rear end in the future?

No unfortunately, for reasons I can't get into. But they have been given to go ahead to run a 53.5 mm restrictor. Check the news for the details:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/news.html

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

But they have been given to go ahead to run a 53.5 mm restrictor.

ZOOM ZOOM!!!

Interesting about Spencer's involvement now. Also, I didn't know they could still use variable inlet trumpets? Is that possible on 'normal' engines as well?

Upsizing the cooling implies that the power increase is going to be fairly substantial--assuming it wasn't marginal with the existing plan on the Courage chassis. I assume the increase works within the confines of the body/chassis?

All of this bodes well for the continuation of this program!


robert.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by skycafe

ZOOM ZOOM!!!

Interesting about Spencer's involvement now. Also, I didn't know they could still use variable inlet trumpets? Is that possible on 'normal' engines as well?

Upsizing the cooling implies that the power increase is going to be fairly substantial--assuming it wasn't marginal with the existing plan on the Courage chassis. I assume the increase works within the confines of the body/chassis?

All of this bodes well for the continuation of this program!


robert.

I beleive the variable length inlet trumpets are a special dispensation for the Mazda. In regards to the cooling, figure they are getting about a 100 hp increase, from 400 to about 485. The cooling was marginal as it currently is with 400 hp. At Sears they were seeing engine temps approaching 210 F, but basically Dennis explains this is because of less than ideal cooling and engine ancillaries to move the oil and handle the heat. But this will all be done away with once they install the new engine.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

I beleive the variable length inlet trumpets are a special dispensation for the Mazda. In regards to the cooling, figure they are getting about a 100 hp increase, from 400 to about 485. The cooling was marginal as it currently is with 400 hp. At Sears they were seeing engine temps approaching 210 F, but basically Dennis explains this is because of less than ideal cooling and engine ancillaries to move the oil and handle the heat. But this will all be done away with once they install the new engine.

Thanks again Mike, but were they able to use the trumpets before, and didn't, or is the dispenation for this part of the plan to up the competitiveness?

[courageous]

Sure they may get better with time, but I doubt Porsche will be this slow when they come in. If you are going to do a job, do it properly or not at all.

[Aysedasi]

Just a slight difference between Porsche and Mazda in every respect, wouldn't you say?

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Just a slight difference between Porsche and Mazda in every respect, wouldn't you say?

Yes, Mazda is a much bigger company.

[iconic]

but this mazda effort isn't a factory one right? do they get much mazda japan money? or is it mainly mazda NA?

[cybersdorf]

And that's the main difference. It isn't a factory project.

[TheNewBob]

Two majorly different approaches - Porsche developing a car as a factory project then selling it on to customers after proving the car's worth, whilst Mazda seemingly have the customer first and improvements are coming afterwards.

Porsche have an entire car, Mazda have just an engine to focus on. I say wait until 2006, and all the news and performances which come in that time. It's very early days in both projects at the minute.