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8 Oct 2003, 16:16 (Ref:744250)
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#1 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Honda returning to CART!?
From Spicoli at crapwagon/cartfanatics.com:
Honda Okay - here's a bomb for you crappies. Honda isn't happy with the EARL. Honda wants back in the "new" CART. Do you make them wait until 05? Or do you let them back for 04? Lots of points to ponder. do you let them have "factory" teams? Is that fair to Ford? Do you care - since that would pretty much kill EARL? Personally I wqould welcomne it as it would mean the end of Andretti the ****er. Wow - alot to think about here....daMN! Some of you might think that this thread is just another rumour, but Spicoli doesn't say things unless he is 99.999% sure.....he's usually right! Would you like to see Honda return or do you think it will just upset Ford?? |
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8 Oct 2003, 16:41 (Ref:744273)
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#2 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,276
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More manufacturers mean more strength, but if I'd be able I'd make them come back on 2005 and be obliged to supply at least 50% of the grid.
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__________________
"Many people depend on motor racing for their livelihood, to them it is a business. To me, it is a sport." -Jim Clark |
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8 Oct 2003, 16:53 (Ref:744288)
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#3 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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Surely their contracts with the IRL teams were for more than one year! And does TG's "only supplying one series" rule affect engines as well as chassis?
Nobody should be allowed in until 2005, anyway. Ford showed commitment and loyalty to CART, and the favour should be returned. |
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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8 Oct 2003, 17:09 (Ref:744318)
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#4 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 169
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Since Ford practically gave the engines to CART, I'm sure they'd be more than just "upset". Besides, there had to have been some pretty hefty strings attached to the deal, the people at Ford aren't stupid.
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8 Oct 2003, 17:20 (Ref:744325)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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I suspect Hodna would be happier if they weren't being beaten heavily by Toyota and Cosworth.
There's no way anyone but Ford will supply engines for next year. Once the market is opened up for the new engine formula, I guess anything goes. The only thing is, aren't they committed to supply IRL engines for its whole 3-year technology cycle? |
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8 Oct 2003, 17:34 (Ref:744340)
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#6 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 94
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wouldn't letting honda back in push the cost of running a team way up.wasn't taht one of the reasons for using only one engine this year?
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8 Oct 2003, 17:42 (Ref:744347)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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Certainly factory dollars, and sponsorship dollars would help out a great deal. OWRS/CART whatever, must be smart and responsible about how these deals are worked, which must be for the benefit of both the owners of the series, and for the teams.
I still don't get the hatred for "traitors". They aren't the reason for the problems with CART the past seasons. |
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8 Oct 2003, 18:10 (Ref:744378)
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#8 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 169
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Can anybody straighten me out on the real background of all these engines, since they all seem to be built in Coventry. Doesn't Cosworth build the CART Ford engines and the Chevy IRL engines? And is the Honda built by Ilmore, was it originally designed for Mopar? Was the Mercedes built by Ilmore? Who's building the Toyota IRL engine and the NASCAR engine? Is it TRD or somebody in England? The whole thing sounds rather incestuous.
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8 Oct 2003, 19:05 (Ref:744422)
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#9 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 174
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Make 'em wait. Better yet, make 'em BEG
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__________________
Can I help it if I think you're funny when you're mad? |
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8 Oct 2003, 19:17 (Ref:744430)
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#10 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 18
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Oh Great!
Does this mean it will be the "Bridgestone presents the Champcar World Series Powered by Ford and Honda"?
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8 Oct 2003, 19:25 (Ref:744433)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 1998
Posts: 2,762
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I believe that Honda Japan supplied the block castings and rotating assembly parts to Honda Race Development USA and they assembled and setup the engines when they were in CART. I think Toyota did the same thing through Toyota Research and Develpment (also known and TRD or turd).
Ford and Cosworth obviously have a long relationship as a supplier and an engineering firm. Cosworth also hires out their engine expertise to other companies, one among them GM's Indy Car engine program. Just as Jack Roush Enterprises, long tied to Ford, also sells technology to Daimler-Chrysler, the aerospace industry and GM. I think TRD is also handling the NASCAR spec pushrod engine used in the Toyota CTS race truck. The Mopar racing engines used in the LMP and the World of Outlaws sprint cars were initially built by a private engine firm here in the US. I know that old man Kinser does his own tuning for his Mopar sprint cars and I am sure the sportscar teams did the same with their powerplants. |
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__________________
Never forget #99 |
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8 Oct 2003, 19:27 (Ref:744435)
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#12 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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Re: Oh Great!
Quote:
 
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8 Oct 2003, 19:47 (Ref:744454)
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#13 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,536
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let honda come in and make them pay for the entrance.
Supply 50% of the teams, and pay those teams to pay ford a severence deal. and have cosworth make the ECU's to keep Traction control in check and let honda deal with the pain of being the prodigal son of Champcar. |
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__________________
SuperTrucks rule- end of story. Listen to my ramblings! Follow my twitter @davidAET I am shameless ... |
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8 Oct 2003, 21:39 (Ref:744546)
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#14 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,480
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Rumours are rumours, but for what it's worth CART needs to see out '04 with Ford before anyone else is allowed back, that's the contract and the right thing to do.
If Honda wanted a presence before then, then they can sponsor some races etc. |
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__________________
"All this amateur analysis leads nowhere and is insignificant......So you waste hours, days, months, years of your life for what end? A bit of one-upmanship on the internet?" - Wilton969 |
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8 Oct 2003, 21:57 (Ref:744564)
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#15 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 44
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Return the favor ford did us by sticking with us and not running to EARL by keeping them around as exclusive suppliers... then when a new formula is introduced, allow engine makers to enter if they wish. That's my opinion.
The focus should be on lowering the cost, and Honda entering might not help that. |
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__________________
Cris - SDSU Undergrad - Longtime CART Fan - Fernandez Fanatic |
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8 Oct 2003, 23:55 (Ref:744635)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 529
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Re: Oh Great!
Quote:
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9 Oct 2003, 00:29 (Ref:744648)
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#17 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 104
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Anyone have a link to the story?
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9 Oct 2003, 02:42 (Ref:744712)
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#18 | |||
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Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Ford has been a good corporate partner to both CART and the IRL through the split. I've heard from Pook and, think either PG or Pollock, that they need to figure out how to control HP increases, cost increases, etc... before allowing more manufacturers to compete. I think a standard CART issued ECU is part of the vision. The funny thing is CART has been trying to change the engine formula for years and there is always something that prevents it from happening. Considering the current deal that is in the works with OWRS, I would be surprised it CART would be ready to make any changes to the current engine specs til at least 2006. |
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9 Oct 2003, 03:14 (Ref:744729)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,744
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I disagree with most of the posts, I'd welcome Honda back with open arms. Honda left because CART jerked them around. Honda produced competitive engines on a consistent basis, something the other recent manufacturers; Ford, Toyota, Mercedes cannot claim.
I think CART has it written in the contract with Ford that they can get other manufacturers in as soon as it is possible. If Honda comes back, why change the engine spec? Keep it as is. Honda already has the R&D done. The idea behind the move to 3.0L V10s was that manufacturers would have less work and reduced costs. Proposal: Engines from a given manufacturer must be distributed randomly to teams, no favortism. No minimum, but must be able to supply 60% of the field. Rev & Boost limited, standard ECUs (which should fix the first two issues, well atleast the revs). Mandate standard engine costs for teams. |
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__________________
No Rotor, No Motor. |
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9 Oct 2003, 03:22 (Ref:744732)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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I agree with much of what Snrub has stated. The only thing I don't agree with is mandating standard engine costs for teams.
Simply put, you want in, you supply engines, no cost to teams, or standard costs, and pay the same amount in sponsorship dollars to OWRS/CART. |
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9 Oct 2003, 03:28 (Ref:744737)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,744
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I think your proposal would work too. It might even be a better idea. I like the standardized sponsorship amount too.
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__________________
No Rotor, No Motor. |
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9 Oct 2003, 03:45 (Ref:744745)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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Also, any new engines must be detuned enough to allow 1000 miles between rebuilds.
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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9 Oct 2003, 04:08 (Ref:744753)
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#23 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 169
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De-tuned spec engines randomly distributed ... WOW
How about electric motors and long extension cords. The engine manufacturers are too concerned with the image of reliability. I think in IRL they have to get an OK from the engine reps to hit the "combat emergency power" button. "Hey, I've got a Zero on my tail; call Allison and see if I can put this P38 on full boost" Maybe claimer engines would put an end to the outspending problem. |
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9 Oct 2003, 04:12 (Ref:744756)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,125
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The 1000-miles-between-rebuilds-thing is an (effective) effort to cut costs. And the racing hasn't suffered for it.
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__________________
Don't make a fuss, just get on the bus! |
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9 Oct 2003, 06:06 (Ref:744798)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,183
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While Ford has done an excellent job this year and they deserve to finish out their contract through 2004 with CART, I can't wait for more engine manufacturers to join the series. That being said, it does worry me that CART may very well make the same mistakes that they have made in the past.
Last edited by Dov; 9 Oct 2003 at 06:10. |
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__________________
Give them good ol' boys the chrome horn PT! |
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