Starting own race team

[thunders1989]

Evening

I am after some advice and opinions on starting my own race team.

Before I start I do understand the saying how do you make a small fortune in motorsport - start with a large one!

I know I do not have enough money to fund myself going out racing on a club level. However I wanted some advice on running my own team on an arrive and drive basis, for example a Mazda mx5.

I have space and storage and a good mechanic who can work on a discounted rate.

I would be looking to run it as a small business on the side of my primary job.

What's everyone's thoughts and experience?

[midgetman]

I run a small kart racing team and believe me if you want to prematurely age, be permanently knackered and on the edge of mental and physical exhaustion then do go ahead!

First do your maths and check that your mechanic really is prepared to work at "discounted rate" - if he does he's either no good or a mug, and you should consider ditching him. Will he be there when the car needs fixing at six o'clock on a Saturday evening, in the teeming rain, so the drivers can be on the grid in the morning? Pay him well, buy his loyalty and charge the money on to your customers.

Next insurance - people like REIS do a good team insurance and it is worth every penny to have peace of mind.

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[midgetman]

Sorry I hit "post" too soon.

Next is infrastructure. Transport for the car, shelter at the race meeting etc. I know you're only small, but drivers are your customers and you need to treat them well. You'll need to be the day before to set up ready.

I run six karts most weekends, and it's pretty hectic but huge fun. The logistics at home in the week are a headache and I couldn't do a proper job at the same time.

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[midgetman]

The other alternative is to share the drive and halve the budget. That's different, you're not aiming to make a profit and can still get a drive yourself at a decent rate. Just be sure you have an agreement over what happens if you or the other driver bend it/break it. You need to be very good friends.

Whatever you choose, have a great time. It's really hard work but pretty rewarding mentally even if not financially in the early days. Good luck!

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[MGDavid]

Another aspect is that Arrive & Drive customers are often extremely hard on the car - if they trash the gearbox and the brakes in an afternoon it's not their problem (you can't prove it wasn't poor prep or the wrong oil or choice of pad material etc).
Far better to find a fellow clubbie to share the work and the costs with. I've done this a fair bit especially for longer endurance races and it works well.

[thunders1989]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Another aspect is that Arrive & Drive customers are often extremely hard on the car - if they trash the gearbox and the brakes in an afternoon it's not their problem (you can't prove it wasn't poor prep or the wrong oil or choice of pad material etc).
Far better to find a fellow clubbie to share the work and the costs with. I've done this a fair bit especially for longer endurance races and it works well.

Thanks for the pointers everyone. I have limited experience in this however my normal job involves customer service and management.

Ideally I would be looking to run one Mazda mx5 in the BRSCC and maybe club endure.

I am looking at around 10k to start this up does this sound like a reasonable budget?

Midgetman would it be possible to maybe pick your brains on some more of the "business" side of it

[midgetman]

PM sent

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[GregUK]

Cost everything in minute detail - everything from the sandwich bought at the Kentagon to the costs of insuring a write-off.

When you've done that, double it and add a bit.....

HTH

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by GregUK

Cost everything in minute detail - everything from the sandwich bought at the Kentagon to the costs of insuring a write-off.

When you've done that, double it and add a bit.....

HTH

and then try to find customers willing to pay the consequent high price to somebody with no track record or references or history. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of teams are started by existing drivers who have been around the block and enjoyed at least a modicum of success and also coped with failure.

[thunders1989]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

and then try to find customers willing to pay the consequent high price to somebody with no track record or references or history. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of teams are started by existing drivers who have been around the block and enjoyed at least a modicum of success and also coped with failure.

This thought has crossed my mind. Everyone has to start somewhere though surely?

[andrewc]

A race team is only as good as its last set of results.

Many teams grow from family teams. The driver does well, wins races, regular podium visitor, championship contender. They then expand into running a second car, or the financial pressures mean driver takes a back seat from driving for a while but still wants to be involved - both ways there is a proven history of success which paying customers are happy to be associated with.

If you don't have the track record of success, it will be hard. You'll have to undercut the opposition due to lack of experience, and hope you get some good drivers to get you the good sets of results from which to build. The driver would be looking for you on how to go faster, so unless you've done it yourself, you'll need to have ready access to someone experienced with the cars in race trim to find those 1/10ths of second.

[thunders1989]

Originally Posted by andrewc

A race team is only as good as its last set of results.

Many teams grow from family teams. The driver does well, wins races, regular podium visitor, championship contender. They then expand into running a second car, or the financial pressures mean driver takes a back seat from driving for a while but still wants to be involved - both ways there is a proven history of success which paying customers are happy to be associated with.

If you don't have the track record of success, it will be hard. You'll have to undercut the opposition due to lack of experience, and hope you get some good drivers to get you the good sets of results from which to build. The driver would be looking for you on how to go faster, so unless you've done it yourself, you'll need to have ready access to someone experienced with the cars in race trim to find those 1/10ths of second.

Ok some good advice there and I completely understand it is a tough proposition to get a customers buy in. Surely there are available race mechanics to hire who can assist in finding those 1/10ths?

[andrewc]

Yes, you can hire in race mechanics, data analysts and driver coaches but that all adds to the cost of running the team, and in many cases they'll look to the team boss for guidance. A team whose principal has been there and done that has a head start.

If its apparent that you are short of knowledge/experience they may drift towards other teams.

[GregUK]

Originally Posted by thunders1989

Surely there are available race mechanics to hire who can assist in finding those 1/10ths?

Yes, point already made - mechanic change wheels and brake pads.

Data Analysts and 'Engineers' make the car go faster. Buy a subscription to Race Car Engineering and you'll see what I mean.

[thunders1989]

Originally Posted by GregUK

Yes, point already made - mechanic change wheels and brake pads.

Data Analysts and 'Engineers' make the car go faster. Buy a subscription to Race Car Engineering and you'll see what I mean.

I will take a look. However do remember I am referring to something like the Mazda MX5 or BMW Compact cup, i suppose my idea and mindset has lent more towards it from a "fun" point of view as opposed to a "front running" point of view

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by thunders1989

I will take a look. However do remember I am referring to something like the Mazda MX5 or BMW Compact cup, i suppose my idea and mindset has lent more towards it from a "fun" point of view as opposed to a "front running" point of view

Bear in mind that most people who compete in club motorsport claim that they are doing it just for *fun*. However you also have to bear in mind that this is a competition so the more *front running* they are, the more *fun* they will be getting out of it! (I've been there as a competitor building & running my own car, and working in teams preparing and running cars for drivers).

[midgetman]

It starts as fun. My kart team grew out of running my son in TKM and I have a background of 30+ years in car racing and am an ARKS tester so have a head start. I started out with the intention of helping people get from indoor karting to 2-stroke, but these things have a habit of growing and I now have a lorry, a race camper, 3 trailers and 100sq m of awning. Hopefully I'll make some money for me soon!

It starts out fun. But winning means more than being on the podium. As the drivers improve they want to be 25th not 30th, that's a "win" to them. That takes commitment from you as well as them.

I don't rent karts for racing. Then we don't have the "why aren't I winning" - "because you're not paying me enough" conversation. If they're not winning I send them out to buy new equipment!

I know my place as a starter team but even so there's pressure to move forwards. We've got a little bit of success and it does help. I take it as a personal failure if we have a mechanical problem, my customers come from an A&D background and don't understand "**it happens" when you show a kart a race track. You need to make things bullet proof. What happens if they paid a few hundred pounds and the wheel falls off on the first lap and they don't get a drive? Accident damage? Does that scratch on the wing constitute damage and warrant a new panel? The driver doesn't worry about a tiny dent, but it makes the car look scruffy and can put off a new customer.

Get this clear from the outset and you'll have no problems when it happens. Be open as to what the potential costs are, motor racing is expensive and you car investment is far more than mine. I'd want to know SuperStar Fred can afford to replace my car when he totals it against a marshals' post. Make him pay the insurance - and it he can't afford that, he can't afford to mess with your livelihood.

There's a lot involved. Even just sharing your car can be very stressful!



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[andrewc]

Originally Posted by thunders1989

I will take a look. However do remember I am referring to something like the Mazda MX5 or BMW Compact cup, i suppose my idea and mindset has lent more towards it from a "fun" point of view as opposed to a "front running" point of view

In my experience, despite the drivers actual skill or budget, they want to be Ayrton Senna in a McLaren rather than Ricardo Rosset in a Footwork. They'd like to hope that the car and team is capable of winning races.

Whilst you may have a market for a cheap drive back of the grid introduction to races, these drivers need the coaching more than anyone. Give them a good time in a (fast), reliable, smart car. Find them plenty of time, maybe they'll come back for another go, or at least recommend you.

Plenty to think about, including what happens in the case of a serious injury or worse to make sure you're adequately covered. Would a poorly written disclaimer cut it in a court of law?

[andrewc]

...and that is before the business side of running the team - accounts, insurance, paperwork, admin.

[thunders1989]

Originally Posted by andrewc

...and that is before the business side of running the team - accounts, insurance, paperwork, admin.

Thanks for all the input everyone really interesting to hear your views and insights. Obviously it is not a decision to take lightly I am not too concerned on the legal and accounts side of it as again I have people who can help me with this.

What is a ballpark figure for charging people racing a Mazda or a Compact in their respective brscc championships or endurance events? I have read various things reference insurance, deposit, tyres

[andrewc]

Can't help with those cars, but I was involved in running a single seater team.

Between races there would be a set amount of work which had to be done anyway, regardless of damage (mostly chargeable) and wear and tear (included in the fee). Work out and cost this. Add a contingency for the big jobs that may get done over winter.

Work out the likely cost of getting your cars to and from all the circuits, we decided to work out the season mileage and average over number of events. We owned the transporters. Will you have to rent storage space / workshops for cars / vans / trailers / trucks.

Work out the costs of hiring the people you need. Weekend staff will usually have a day rate plus expenses.

Work out the cost of accommodation / catering for the team. Work out costs of hospitality - are you going to feed your drivers and team members during the day?

Work out the cost of spare parts and consumables you have to take to races.

Work out the cost of buying/prepping the car.

Work out the cost of all the tools you'll need.

Get quotes for insurance.

Work out your costs so its clear and concise, so you can understand them and potential clients can as well. Some teams have a headline grabbing low headline price, but once you've found that race entries, fuel, tyres, transport, access to tuition/advice are all extras.

Then compare to others and work out how they're managing to do it for their prices. Potential customers may well have spoken to the others, so you'll need to be able to explain the different prices.

[midgetman]

I must admit that one of the bonuses of being "team principal" is that the customers feed me Mind you a diet of bacon butties and chips is playing hell with my body, and the other downside is that the dads are on a "lads' weekend away" and shovel alcohol down my throat on race weekend evenings...

...best cost in for gym membership!

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[Bcarr6]

If it helps, I run a design firm (in an entirely different sector, by my weekend passion is motorsports) and I'd be happy to lend some design assistance wherever it may be needed


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[thunders1989]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

If it helps, I run a design firm (in an entirely different sector, by my weekend passion is motorsports) and I'd be happy to lend some design assistance wherever it may be needed


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Thanks for that offer I will drop you a PM.

As an update I am currently in the process of viewing a few cars and am torn between running it purely as an arrive and drive or maybe entering some of the club endurance and trying to find another clubbie with a budget to gain me some experience

[midgetman]

Personally I'd go down the shared expenses route. Establish some credibility first, learn the sport without the pressure of the business side. Also you may avoid the insurance liability side of things. (But I'm no lawyer, get someone to look into that)

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