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21 Jan 2004, 19:55 (Ref:845812)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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ALMS Teams at LMES Opener at Monza
As promised in another thread, I wanted to start this one off to see where it goes:
Two ALMS teams have announced plans to compete at Monza on May 9th: Intersport's two Lolas (LMP1 and LMP2) AutoCon's R&S Elan driven by Michael Lewis and possibly Tom Drissi...(I say that because their announcement said that Mr. Drissi is on board for "most" of their season schedule...I would think he would be for this race...especially if he is on the roster for Le Mans...but that is unclear from their announcement) Champion Audi's schedule lists the LM Test days April 25 and LM itseld, with no mention of Monza.... The Corvette announcement on the ALMS site of their GTS plans also makes no mention of Monza in their schedule... Rand's announcement talkes about ALMS plans...also no mention of Monza... My Thoughts: Especially for the Le Mans-invited ALMS teams in all classes, this makes good sense to compete at Monza.... 1. You are already over there for the LM test days in late April, and it would give you another event to test, compete, and develop your cars for Le Mans.... 2. You will be running against potential competitors you will face in June...any you will learn their strengths and weaknesses compared to what you have as a package...valuable info for when it will eally count one month later in France... 3. Most teams probably will not transport their equipment back from Europe following the test anyway...an added round trip would be quite expensive....and they will probably do some testing somewhere anyway between the Test Days and LM itself to try out some ideas from what they learned on April 25 and 26... 4. There is a full month following Monza to still do your full re-working of the car to prepare it for Le Mans.. The BIG downsides.... 1. If you have any major mishaps, it puts you VERY far in the hole for your June preparation, and if it is totalled, you may even jeopardized your chance to compete at LM if you do not have a back-up (and even a back-up car must be approved by the ACO if it does not go through scrutinieering in late April...not a "given" approval) 2. Since it would be cost-prohibitive and extremely tough on your team to compete in the other 3 LMES events, especially given how the LMES schedule overlays with the ALMS events, you really don't benefit from any points you gain from racing at Monza....and how you stand for the season total is what will determine automatic bids to the 2005 Le Mans... Still...given the scenarios above, I believe that competing at Monza would be the better move of the two....the amount of learning and race datat you would gain from racing at Monza would ultimately help your Le Mans effort and give you a decent yardstick by which to measure your package against the teams you will race against in June.... There's risk every time you put your car on the track...whether it is testing or racing...the difference is that racing puts more cars in your way and yours in greater harm's way.... But given the pros and cons....I think AutoCon and Intersport are making the right move.... Will others follow??? Are there others from the ALMS who plan to race at Monza that I am not aware of? (Please list them if there are...) Jhansen made a great point in another thread....if a number of ALMS teams enter what should be an already strong field of European teams that have announced their LMES plans, this rac could be as exciting as...if not more so...than Sebring.... Now... Your thoughts? |
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21 Jan 2004, 21:07 (Ref:845883)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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Another great thing about running Monza is that is a low downforce track that I would consider to be a decent venue for Le Mans race prep. Long straights, chicanes, some quick corners. Some of the more knowledgable members may be able to comment better on this. But what better way to find out if any of the tricks learned at Pre-Q will work than an actual race? I hope for a lot of ALMS participation.
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
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21 Jan 2004, 21:16 (Ref:845892)
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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My thoughts, too, jhansen....I think running at Monza definitely helps your Le Mans preparations....
I forgot to state my impression of the Monza circuit as it factors into LM prep....there might be some places in the US...Like the long course at VIR or Road America...to go and test what you learned at the LM Test Days, but I think it would be smarter to get the race conditions testing done at a circuit that will allow you to try a few things and see how they work out in actual competition... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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21 Jan 2004, 21:27 (Ref:845906)
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Monza is listed at 5.793km in length. I believe Le Mans is 13 something km in length. But Monza has two fast sections followed by a chicane, the quick Lesmos curves, Ascari and another quick straight followed by Parobolica. You can really develop your aero package at Monza in full race trim, which is priceless information.
With a full LMES field and some additional support from the ALMS teams (fingers crossed) this will be the best race at the Monza circuit this year. I will be rather disappointed if Dyson and Champion do not take advantage of this. They would add a lot to that race along with Intersport. Last edited by jhansen; 21 Jan 2004 at 21:28. |
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
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21 Jan 2004, 21:35 (Ref:845916)
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Dyson didn't file for their automatic bid to Le Mans....
I sure hope they are filing the paperwork to get an invite!!!! If so, I'd like to see them at Monza, too....and the Corvettes, and others from the ALMS.... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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21 Jan 2004, 21:49 (Ref:845937)
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Quote:
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__________________
"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver!
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21 Jan 2004, 23:08 (Ref:846062)
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 378
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Well the fact that it does have the big downside regarding possible accident to the cars will deter quite a few people from doing so. Compare to Le Mans which is the ultimate Goal, risking a car before reaching the goal could be dangerous...
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21 Jan 2004, 23:23 (Ref:846076)
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Veteran
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Does that go for Sebring to??? If we follow that line of logic then there would be no racing before Le Mans for any of the racers shooting for Le Mans. I get your point, and true, Le Mans is the ulimate goal. But these guys are racers and should want to be at the track. You can't take your car out one time a year and be competitive. That doesn't even work at Indy anymore. Plus top LMES runners can gain automatic entries into Le Mans. I just don't buy it. Unless you're really small. And if that's the case, what chance at Le Mans do you really have anyways?
Last edited by jhansen; 21 Jan 2004 at 23:25. |
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
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22 Jan 2004, 00:44 (Ref:846232)
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 378
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The fact that Monza race is just a month before the Le Mans would be the problem. Not the fact that Monza is before Le Mans. For teams like most ALMS team who is based in the states, should the car require major work after that race weekend would mean either they'd need to ship the car back and forth, or ship equipment back and forth, or rent the place so they could work on their car. The last option being likely as Europe doesn't lack stuff like these, but the problem being the cost would be a heavy burden for private teams to bear. Sure teams usually work their butt off between normal races and last min repair that had done to good effect was seen quite often(ie the Junk Yard Dog MG Lola of Intersport), but ideally all would want to avoid that. The fact that most cars are composite tub will add to the complication as well, as they aren't exactly the easiest thing to fix compare to spaceframe car, and the process clearly takes time....
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22 Jan 2004, 06:25 (Ref:846422)
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
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This LMES stuff seems to become something, isn't it ?
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22 Jan 2004, 13:55 (Ref:846824)
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Your concerns would be a concern for competitors, RacingManiac...
I agree...to an extent.... Maybe some forum members who work with North American-based teams can share some insight with us on a question I have..... The Question: Following the LM Test Days, do most of the teams keep their equipment over in Europe until the race in June, or do they ship it back to the US, work on it in their shops, and then ship it back??? I know that in many cases they do strip-downs and re-work every aspect of the car as they prepare it for the race....but where does that happen???? Each team would have to weigh the upsides vs. the downsides....in my view, the data you would get from running a circuit like Monza would tell you a lot, and would give you an excellent opportunity to try some of the set-up changes that may have arisen from the Test Days within a race setting against competition that you will face in June... That upside, in my opinion anyway, outweighs the risk of damage you may incur in an event... A few other important notes to consider: The teams already will have certain composite elements (Front-End Noses, full Rear Cowling lids, wings, etc.) with them as replacement parts for Le Mans anyway....You regularly see teams at LM replace these types of panels following a tire shredding and tearing up the composite panel on the car.... The only truly bad scenario would be to have major damage to the central tub portion of the car itself that would require major repairs, fixing aspects of the tub that would affect proper allignment of the running gear that mounts to it, etc.... Besides, if you have a mishap, you have at least three weeks to repair damage from that mishap and still have the car ready for the scrutineering, practice sessions, and qualifying before the LM race... I feel that the value of the upsides outweighs the risk of the downsides... That's just my opinion..... I do hope that those in the business itself will share with us how teams from North America handle their time and their cars between Test Days and the Race week itself.... My guess is that teams that can afford the shipping back to the US might do it....but others on tighter budgets would not....I also recall reading that last summer, teams chose cheaper ways to ship their equipment over to Europe that took a lot longer (on the water as opposed to the air) and did keep most, if not all of their gear over there...but I could be wrong on that... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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22 Jan 2004, 15:09 (Ref:846910)
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#12 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
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For those who are wondering about the difficulty of fixing a wrecked car, I have to ask - where would the best place for the cars to be repaired be?
For instance, the Junk Yard Dog was repaired at Lola's factory - in England. I'd be willing to bet that if Champion wrecked, they might find a few spare parts in Germany. Ditto for any Porsches. And just how far is Maranello from Monza? The only team I can see being gunshy due to potential wreckage is Corvette. |
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... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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22 Jan 2004, 15:47 (Ref:846963)
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One could argue that R&S and/or a Panoz LMP might have those same issues....
MUCH more so for a Panoz (especially in privateer hands), since the R&S chassis is a tubular frame with composite panels that are fitted to the tube space frame.. That's an easy repair, provide the main tube frame structure as a whole isn't a "twisted sister" from a horrific accident... But as of now, there has been ZERO word about any sort of privateer effort with the Panoz LMPs, so they aren't an issue at this time.... so I would agree with you, paul-collins....Corvette would be the only one I can think of as well that might have real logisitics issues that would make them gunshy... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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22 Jan 2004, 16:16 (Ref:847027)
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It just occurred to me - Corvette likes to debut cars at Le Mans. Would they ship two sets of cars over for Le Mans and Monza?
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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22 Jan 2004, 16:18 (Ref:847030)
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Veteran
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Quote:
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__________________
"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver!
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22 Jan 2004, 16:51 (Ref:847087)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
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the chance of so many team racing at MOnza would be awesome it seems simple enough, and relatively cheap-if the ALMS recieved a partner in shipping i bet this would be a no brainer and the ILMS woudl exist
i really would love to race at Monza one time at least ibet every team does too. |
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22 Jan 2004, 17:32 (Ref:847158)
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#17 | ||
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Logically, it seems to me that if you're already over there for the LM Test Days, why not race at Monza to try some things that you learned from the test days to see if they pan out in reality....
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23 Jan 2004, 21:46 (Ref:848736)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
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Just remembed another ALMS team coming over for Le Mans - Orbit/BAM racing. According to this though the team isn't stopping in Europe,
http://www.speedarena.com/news/publi...cle_3951.shtml |
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23 Jan 2004, 22:05 (Ref:848759)
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Quote:
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__________________
"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver!
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25 Jan 2004, 01:56 (Ref:849783)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
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It would be nice if the European Teams reciprocate. I would love to see Courages and Domes at Sebring and some of the other ALMS events.
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25 Jan 2004, 03:49 (Ref:849802)
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Quote:
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__________________
"I have a tendency to let my mind wander a bit during some of the yellow flag conditions; I look around, check out people in the stands, things like that" Darren Law - Lizard Extrordinaire and he's gonna be GT Leader and Brumos Porsche driver!
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26 Jan 2004, 14:45 (Ref:851133)
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#22 | ||
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Veteran
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I'm starting another thread in a day or two...the Sebring deadline for entryies is Wed., Jan. 28, I believe...
But I have seen notes, other posts on varous websites, etc., that the RollCentre Dallaras are expected at Sebring, and I believe Audi UK will send their contingent.... Pescarolo and RfH do not have the budgets to come over for Sebring...at least that is what we've been reading over the past month or two... |
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26 Jan 2004, 14:53 (Ref:851150)
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
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Quote:
 Teams and pilots could be happy to go to race at Sebring, but the lack of € 
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