Technical Question....

[Bluebottle]

This may seem a bit of an odd question and,f or the most part, I think I know what most of the responses might be .
I'll explain why I'm asking a bit later but what I want to know is what would the visible/audible (I.e. with no test gear) symptoms be of a blown head gasket? (On a Triumph Spitfire 1500 twin carb engine)

[oily oaf]

A heavy white sludge inside the oil filler cap due to a water jacket seepage into the sump, also check the coolant for signs of a rainbow type oil slick on the surface. Someimes a badly blown gaskett will cause cylinder pressure to be forced out thru the head, u can sometimes feel it or if not check by coating the head to block joint with soapy water and the resultant bubbles will indicate where the prob lies. Also check for flecks of white on the dipstick and look for excessive steam from the exhaust tailpipe.

[touringcarnut]

Originally posted by oily oaf
A heavy white sludge inside the oil filler cap due to a water jacket seepage into the sump, also check the coolant for signs of a rainbow type oil slick on the surface. Someimes a badly blown gaskett will cause cylinder pressure to be forced out thru the head, u can sometimes feel it or if not check by coating the head to block joint with soapy water and the resultant bubbles will indicate where the prob lies. Also check for flecks of white on the dipstick and look for excessive steam from the exhaust tailpipe.

Time for Oily's bill!

[Bluebottle]

Cheers Oily, that's what I was expecting to read...

The reason I'm asking is that last weekend driving to Le Mans I'd got 70 miles out of Calais when the temp went up off the scale. when I came to a halt on the hard shoulder of the Autoroute I found a comlete lack of radiator cap. I was taken (With the car....) off the Autoroute to a "garage" in the nearest town. I had no choice about where I was taken, this was the company which is contracted to remove vehicles from the Autoroute.
The first thing they did was close for lunch for 2 hours. When they got back they proceeded to do a whole lot of nothing. I had to persuade them (Via phonecalls to the RAC who translated for me- must learn more French!!!) to get their fingers out and do something, which they said they would do on Mondey (It was Thursday morning) so after another call they did a 'test' which involved filling the rad and running the engine untill it got hot (still no rad cap) Then they fitted a cap from a scrap Pug (the best kind... ) and did it again. The engine sounded good, there was no sign of oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil and all seemed well....
Then the RAC called me and said the 'Garage' had told them the test showed a blown head gasket!! I told them they were talking and that I thought the cap may have not been put back properly after I checked the level the day before (DOH!) or had perhaps shaken loose (shurely it would burst a hose rather than blow the cap off, and I would have heard it anyway.)..and the car was running fine, they told me if I drove away I would not have any breakdown cover for the rest of the weekend!!
I didn't want to leave the car there over the weekend so I had them take me and the car back to Calais and the RAC from Dover to Wycombe and travelled back to Le Mans by train the next day..

So, were they talking ?

[oily oaf]

Sounds like it my friend. If the head gaskett had blown there should have been evidence of oil to coolant contamination. If the cooling system had over pressurised the rad cap has a fail safe device that causes it to loosen and allow steam to escape without the loss of the cap itself so although u would have lost coolant the cap should still be on the rad although loose. Could u have forgotten to replace it after your pre journey check? This would cause the engine to overheat due to lack of pressure in the system. Its possible the cap may have shaken loose but a bit unlikely although anythings poss in the crazy world of the internal combustion engine. Good luck with the old girl I hope she is returned in fine fettle and gives u many more years of Triumph based motoring pleasure.
Keep me updated won't u this is an interesting one Cheers Oily

[Bluebottle]

Cheers Oily, I suspect I didn't tighten it down fully after I checked it the day before rather than forget it completely, it's a new rad and the cap was a tighter fit than before so it's possible that's what happened.
So, who do I complain to about that recovery place in Abbeville? I'll start with the RAC, then the company which runs the Autoroute, copies to the 'garage' etc etc (It's usefull at times like this that my brothers wife is a proffessional translator!!)
I'll let you know how I get on. Meanwhile, my local Triumph expert (Len Young) is giving it a good look over just to make sure.

Cheers
Phil

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by Bluebottle
Cheers Oily, I suspect I didn't tighten it down fully after I checked it the day before rather than forget it completely, it's a new rad and the cap was a tighter fit than before so it's possible that's what happened.
So, who do I complain to about that recovery place in Abbeville? I'll start with the RAC, then the company which runs the Autoroute, copies to the 'garage' etc etc (It's usefull at times like this that my brothers wife is a proffessional translator!!)
I'll let you know how I get on. Meanwhile, my local Triumph expert (Len Young) is giving it a good look over just to make sure.

Cheers
Phil

Why bother getting wound up with complaining, after all they were French mechanics so you can't expect much else.
Another symptom of failed head gasket without the sludging of oil would be white smoke from the exhaust (basicly steam) if the gasket had gone between the waterways and the cylinders. You wouldn't lose a rad cap from overheating as it has a pressure release valve that bypasses the water straight to the overflow.

[oily oaf]

Originally posted by falcemob
Why bother getting wound up with complaining, after all they were French mechanics so you can't expect much else.
Another symptom of failed head gasket without the sludging of oil would be white smoke from the exhaust (basicly steam) if the gasket had gone between the waterways and the cylinders. You wouldn't lose a rad cap from overheating as it has a pressure release valve that bypasses the water straight to the overflow.

pay attention Falcy I said that You're right about french mechanics though, about as much use as a chocolate teapot

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by oily oaf
pay attention Falcy I said that You're right about french mechanics though, about as much use as a chocolate teapot

Sorry your oilyship, I got bored after the third line and fell asleep.

[Bluebottle]

There wasn't a single person worty of the name 'mechanic' at that garage but [DISCLAIMER] I'm sure France has it's fair share of good and bad mechanics as with any country [/DISCLAIMER]
I was at a disadvantage however because I don't speak enough of the langage.

[oily oaf]

Originally posted by Bluebottle
There wasn't a single person worty of the name 'mechanic' at that garage but [DISCLAIMER] I'm sure France has it's fair share of good and bad mechanics as with any country [/DISCLAIMER]
I was at a disadvantage however because I don't speak enough of the langage.

C'est la vie mon brave A thought has occured to me ask your mate Len (now you can't go wrong with a mechanic with a good English name like that) if he can sort u out a new rad pressure cap as the one they stuck on from the Pug could be unsuitable for the system u have. What the pressure cap does is raise the boiling point of the coolant so that the engine can run at high temperatures without losing water, so the cap is set ot release pressure in the form of steam or water at a given pressure. I think around 13psi in your case so a foreign cap could lead to further probs in the old overheating dept. Adieu mon ami, eh bientot and all that old guff

[Bluebottle]

The Pug cap will certainly be replaced- for one thing it's got a small crack in it (it was from a heavily front-ended car!!)

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by oily oaf
C'est la vie mon brave ............. Adieu mon ami, eh bientot and all that old guff

Oily mein alter freund, not only are you fluent in Latin, you also sprechen Sie Deutsches

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by falcemob
not only are you fluent in Latin....

Quid?

[oily oaf]

Originally posted by falcemob
Oily mein alter freund, not only are you fluent in Latin, you also sprechen Sie Deutsches

Danke mein herre, donner und blitzen, wo ist der whisky und ciggaretten, Gott en Himmel, Achtung Englander. Just the basics Falcy.

[oily oaf]

Originally posted by Bluebottle
Quid?

Make it a fiver and we'll say no more about it

[Tim Falce]

Originally posted by oily oaf
Danke mein herre, donner und blitzen, wo ist der whisky und ciggaretten, Gott en Himmel, Achtung Englander. Just the basics Falcy.

You've been taking your old Valiant comics into work again haven't you.

[Bluebottle]

This is in grave danger of turning into an Australian style thread!

[Bluebottle]

Quick update on the Hurricane....
Len took the thermostat out to check it for potential stickyness and he has now removed the broken bolt stubb to enable refitting of the thermostat. He also replaced a heater bypass pipe and a few other suspect hoses (No connection to the problem, they were just looking at us and saying "Change me!!')
The next stage is to put water in it, fit the new cap and take it for a long run to get it nice and hot (a better excuse I have yet to find...)
If you see a steaming blue heap by the road it could be me... or my car
I'll keep you posted!

[Mackmot]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm chocolate teapots

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by Mackmot
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm chocolate teapots

Surely you can't be refering to those friendly chaps at the 'garage' in France??

Took it for a good run this morning, got it up to temp and had a longish run at 70mph on the A404 between the M40 and the A4 (Nice road, no cameras!!) temp stayed stable, no loss of water, no steam, no pinking (knocking) just the wind (and rain) in my hair, the sound of the twin pipes behind me and the whine of the gearbox .