Shattered Dreams

mountainstar · 28 Nov 2007, 05:36 (Ref:2077041)

I know so many wishing for the death of champcar had a lot tied up in the trial of Kevin Kalkoven and others. All those dreams were shattered today when a jury declared them not guilty.

http://www.reuters.com/article/compa...52441920071127

So sad too bad.

Tony Clifton · 28 Nov 2007, 05:51 (Ref:2077045)

I am glad to see a good outcome for Mr. Kalkoven and his 3 co-defendants. Stockholder lawsuits are common to see when the market falls.
Investors want their cash back from SOMEBODY.

D.R.T. · 28 Nov 2007, 07:17 (Ref:2077062)

Very good news for Mr Kalkoven and ChampCar.

Have been following the case via crash.net and it appears the proceedings were thorough.

Very sad for those who are still dealing through the effects of the collaspe.

coyote9999 · 28 Nov 2007, 21:12 (Ref:2077564)

Mountainstar, I'm in shock (not!) There is usually a very quick poster when not so good news about Champ Car is floating around. Am glad with the end result. KK and friends will now be able to concentrate on bigger and better things. Hopefully a few driver annoucements will come soon which will already be better than last year.

The Snout · 28 Nov 2007, 22:43 (Ref:2077612)

The law firm of Google & Google will be disappointed for sure.

mountainstar · 28 Nov 2007, 23:44 (Ref:2077643)

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyote9999

Mountainstar, I'm in shock (not!) There is usually a very quick poster when not so good news about Champ Car is floating around. Am glad with the end result. KK and friends will now be able to concentrate on bigger and better things. Hopefully a few driver annoucements will come soon which will already be better than last year.

I know it's amazing how a certain few get the jump so fast on posting negative news yet somehow when a major story like this hits totally ignore it. Anyways this will certainly free up time with Mr. Kalkoven as it is no longer an issue.

Sounds like a lot is in the works right now so let's hope for a good season next year.

Fogelhund · 29 Nov 2007, 01:15 (Ref:2077672)

Indeed, a lot is in the works, and should become public in the next few months. Certainly I would imagine by February. Of course, it isn't uncommon for deals that are nearly completed to fall apart, but we should see as this one definately has momentum.

JohnSSC · 29 Nov 2007, 01:19 (Ref:2077676)

Hmmm, I wonder who he could be talking about regarding negativity???

Well, I didn't comment earlier as the Internet Police at work keep a rather tight lid on our recreational activities on the internet so for my part, being first out ot the box to comment on this one was not worth losing my job over.

In regards to this though I find it troubling that some folks have so little in their lives but to presume that the thoughts and wishes of others are completely focused on seeing bad things happen to people. The fact that neither KK nor any of the co-defendants were found guilty does not make me sad, unhappy or even mildly annoyed. A guilty verdict was neither an expectation or a hope of mine. Yes, I commented on the fallout from a potential guilty verdict but that was from the standpoint of how that might affect CC. Not having all of the particulars of the case at my disposal I had no way of "knowing" what the outcome would be.

Speaking for myself, my self-esteem and internal happiness are not predicated on receiving news regarding the misfortunes of others. I take exception to the presumption that somehow my life would be enhanced by the news that some person or another has been found guilty of something.

It is in fact a sad thing that this has happened as the real tragedy here is that people's pension funds were invested in a company that in the end, was performing at a much lower level than anyone thought and when the bottom fell out the folks lost their investment (not making a judgment here). Seeing as how that was to provide (in part) for their retirement, that is just that much less to invest and build equity with.

Certainly I agree that with this behind them, KK and the other defendants can get on with things and the plaintiffs will have to as well.

mountainstar · 29 Nov 2007, 05:01 (Ref:2077728)

Also important to keep in mind it was never a criminal trial only a civil one.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/41803/

"After five years of examining every email and employee at JDS Uniphase, plaintiffs could not lay a glove on Kevin Kalkhoven," stated the Australian’s attorney, Michael Shepard. “As I predicted in my opening statement, all the plaintiffs could prove was that Mr. Kalkhoven is rich. We thank the jury for fairly reviewing the facts and appreciating the complete lack of evidence in the case. The trial proved that JDS Uniphase did great while Mr. Kalkhoven was in charge and for a long time after. Today’s verdict completing vindicates Mr. Kalkhoven and proves that he always acted honestly and in good faith.”

JohnSSC · 29 Nov 2007, 10:47 (Ref:2077857)

I don't recall anyone noting this was anything other than a civil action. You still have either a judge or a jury making a determination that defendant's actions were or were not harmful to the plaintiff(s).

D.R.T. · 29 Nov 2007, 16:12 (Ref:2078010)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

In regards to this though I find it troubling that some folks have so little in their lives but to presume that the thoughts and wishes of others are completely focused on seeing bad things happen to people.

Given the selective posting of some in here, I dont think such a conclusion was a stretch.

2112 · 30 Nov 2007, 02:49 (Ref:2078409)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Indeed, a lot is in the works, and should become public in the next few months. Certainly I would imagine by February. Of course, it isn't uncommon for deals that are nearly completed to fall apart, but we should see as this one definately has momentum.

Tell us what you know!....Murphy

paul-collins · 30 Nov 2007, 15:17 (Ref:2078757)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2112

Tell us what you know!....Murphy

lol

Rush, he's not murphy, I am. No, wait, I'm not either.

... although we do talk to him ... extramundane seems to know about that.

2112 · 30 Nov 2007, 23:26 (Ref:2079065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-collins

lol

Rush, he's not murphy, I am. No, wait, I'm not either.

... although we do talk to him ... extramundane seems to know about that.

You really are everywhere!

extramundane · 1 Dec 2007, 02:52 (Ref:2079146)

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-collins

lol

Rush, he's not murphy, I am. No, wait, I'm not either.

... although we do talk to him ... extramundane seems to know about that.

Yeah, well, my timing's been better, that's for sure.

Nice to see you're reading the Real forums, though!

mountainstar · 1 Dec 2007, 05:11 (Ref:2079182)

I think it was "murphy the furphy" that also came up with Honda joining champcar and running 16 LMP2 cars in the ALMS a few years back.

coyote9999 · 2 Dec 2007, 01:25 (Ref:2079607)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Hmmm, I wonder who he could be talking about regarding negativity???

Well, I didn't comment earlier as the Internet Police at work keep a rather tight lid on our recreational activities on the internet so for my part, being first out ot the box to comment on this one was not worth losing my job over.

In regards to this though I find it troubling that some folks have so little in their lives but to presume that the thoughts and wishes of others are completely focused on seeing bad things happen to people. The fact that neither KK nor any of the co-defendants were found guilty does not make me sad, unhappy or even mildly annoyed. A guilty verdict was neither an expectation or a hope of mine. Yes, I commented on the fallout from a potential guilty verdict but that was from the standpoint of how that might affect CC. Not having all of the particulars of the case at my disposal I had no way of "knowing" what the outcome would be.

Speaking for myself, my self-esteem and internal happiness are not predicated on receiving news regarding the misfortunes of others. I take exception to the presumption that somehow my life would be enhanced by the news that some person or another has been found guilty of something.

It is in fact a sad thing that this has happened as the real tragedy here is that people's pension funds were invested in a company that in the end, was performing at a much lower level than anyone thought and when the bottom fell out the folks lost their investment (not making a judgment here). Seeing as how that was to provide (in part) for their retirement, that is just that much less to invest and build equity with.

Certainly I agree that with this behind them, KK and the other defendants can get on with things and the plaintiffs will have to as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Johm SSC,

If the hat does not fit you don't wear it! I know we have had different views on various subjects relating to OWR and the stae of Champ Car in particular but I was not making reference to you in any way shape or form. I respect you although I often disagree with your views which are often slightly tilted against Champ Car which you insist on stating that as un unbiased opinion. I don't want to start a debate about the how's, when's and why's so i'll leave it at that and will bring the discussion back to the main topic being KK and the court ruling.

JohnSSC · 2 Dec 2007, 12:53 (Ref:2079873)

Back at you coyote!

The bottom line here is that we are going to find out if some of what I will call "drift" was because KK was preparing for depositions in Antarctica or if that is just the way things are.

stradlin21 · 7 Dec 2007, 13:23 (Ref:2083610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Hmmm, I wonder who he could be talking about regarding negativity???

Well, I didn't comment earlier as the Internet Police at work keep a rather tight lid on our recreational activities on the internet so for my part, being first out ot the box to comment on this one was not worth losing my job over.

In regards to this though I find it troubling that some folks have so little in their lives but to presume that the thoughts and wishes of others are completely focused on seeing bad things happen to people. The fact that neither KK nor any of the co-defendants were found guilty does not make me sad, unhappy or even mildly annoyed. A guilty verdict was neither an expectation or a hope of mine. Yes, I commented on the fallout from a potential guilty verdict but that was from the standpoint of how that might affect CC. Not having all of the particulars of the case at my disposal I had no way of "knowing" what the outcome would be.

Speaking for myself, my self-esteem and internal happiness are not predicated on receiving news regarding the misfortunes of others. I take exception to the presumption that somehow my life would be enhanced by the news that some person or another has been found guilty of something.

It is in fact a sad thing that this has happened as the real tragedy here is that people's pension funds were invested in a company that in the end, was performing at a much lower level than anyone thought and when the bottom fell out the folks lost their investment (not making a judgment here). Seeing as how that was to provide (in part) for their retirement, that is just that much less to invest and build equity with.

Certainly I agree that with this behind them, KK and the other defendants can get on with things and the plaintiffs will have to as well.

the Internet Police where I am are a real pain, i'm only in the office when i'm not out on a job or on a call out so when I am here (which I am right now) i'm usually surfing the web, because apart from writing up work permits and filling in paperwork there is nothing I can do, electricians and office work don't go together very well

but enough about the joys of my day

this isn't really a story that surprises me with the outcome

but on this thread it says "shattered dreams" but it goes onto say this wasn't a criminal case anyway? So was series ever really under threat? I really don't think it was, I think it's just positive sensationalism.

It's excellent that KK can concentrate on 2008 however, hopefully a much stronger season

JohnSSC · 8 Dec 2007, 02:38 (Ref:2084081)

It was not under threat in any criminal sense - the potential payout if there had been a finding for the plaintiffs may have had some impact. Even that would have depended on the amount of the award, etc.

Moot point now!

indycool · 9 Dec 2007, 11:30 (Ref:2084784)

I don't think anyone expected the State of Connecticut Employees Pension Fund to wind up owning the CC series.

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