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1 May 2007, 10:04 (Ref:1904032) | #1 | |
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 312
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Alloy wheel nuts
Having robbed a (large) bank in order to pay for a set of forged alloy wheel nuts I've just discovered they've been banned by the MSA.
How ridiculous - I mean, when I started the wheelnuts I used were a zillion years old and very very well used. Never ever saw a scrute even look at them. What about Porsches - and others - where alloy wheel nuts are fitted as standard?? They are so lovely they probably should be on the mantlepiece rather than the car but what's going on?? Anyone know of any alloy wheel nut incidents lately? Are the big single nuts on single seaters steel or alloy?? |
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1 May 2007, 11:28 (Ref:1904113) | #2 | ||
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IIRC alloy lug nuts tend to expand when heated from use. as they expand they loosen. So steel lug nuts are used / required at races.
Plus as alloy lug nuts are put on and taken off several times, the threads tend to get worn down and not hold as tight as they use too. Many ppl use hardened streel lug nuts and ARP studs to prevent such an incident. |
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"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
1 May 2007, 13:00 (Ref:1904200) | #3 | ||
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Quote:
How do the nuts loosen if they expand - surely the hole thro the middle gets smaller rather than bigger?? And the threads 'fill up' more??? Or doesn't it work like that?? Any Porsche drivers out there?? |
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1 May 2007, 15:50 (Ref:1904309) | #4 | |||
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Quote:
And each time the lug nut is put on, might be a little of the alumium is shaved off, so the threads are not as tight as they were the first time. Personally the minimal wt saved with the aluminum bing lug nuts are not worth a wheel coming off at high speeds. I use open ended hardened steel lug nuts, about $1.50 each at a auto parts store. |
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"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
2 May 2007, 10:01 (Ref:1904868) | #5 | ||
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Actually they have been banned for years.
I know because I got thrown out of scrutineering at Lydden several years ago. I ended up fitting rusty worn out 25 year old very short trailer nuts. Up until that point I had been using ali nuts for years with not problems. To make a blanket statement that ali nuts are 'unsafe' because they expand more than steel disregards the hundreds of possible materials it could be made out of. I guess the MSA are just covering themselves in case somebody started making them out of some real junk cast material. |
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2 May 2007, 11:13 (Ref:1904900) | #6 | ||
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dennis is right they havnt been allowed for years, which always made me giggle when i see compomotives still current advert for competition alloy wheel nuts
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AKA Guru its not speed thats dangerous, just the sudden lack of it! |
2 May 2007, 11:26 (Ref:1904907) | #7 | |||
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Quote:
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"When the fear of death out weighs the thrill of speed, brake." LG |
2 May 2007, 12:00 (Ref:1904925) | #8 | ||
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Quote:
Still think it's a daft rule for the likes of a hillclimber like me. |
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2 May 2007, 14:47 (Ref:1905023) | #9 | ||
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jonners the coificient of linear expansion, (that's a big sentence ) will answer the question on the "hole" getting bigger if you are still interested !
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2 May 2007, 16:21 (Ref:1905093) | #10 | ||
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Quote:
I might have got this so wrong that it sounds like I'm making it up but as far as the ring (that is, the nut) is concerned it doesn't all expand in one direction - in other words, as the od gets bigger the id gets smaller Or perhaps I didn't understand the linear wotsit thing at all...word of warning...as an engineer i make a damn fine hillclimber (er, which isn't saying much unfortunately...) Don't hesitate to educate me - I'm a safe pair of hands because I know what i don't know which is anything so might as well start somewhere... |
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2 May 2007, 16:24 (Ref:1905099) | #11 | |||
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Quote:
Basically, imagine the metal that makes up the circumference of any hole. Now expand that metal. Whether it's an ID or an OD, the longer circumference equals a larger hole. GCSE/O Level Physics standard I'm afraid to say, maybe earlier. |
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Dallara F307 Toyota, MSV F3 Cup - Class and Team Champion 2012 Monoposto Champion 2008, 2010 & 2011. |
2 May 2007, 16:43 (Ref:1905119) | #12 | |
Racer
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but if i blow more air into my daughter's swimming armbands she tell me they get tighter
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2 May 2007, 16:58 (Ref:1905127) | #13 | ||
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The fact is that they don't really care at scruitineering, they only seem to care if there is a blaringly obvious rule infringement. Surely they can't tell if they are alloy or steel nuts by looking at them?
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These comments are my personal opinion, they do not reflect the views of others at Carr Racing. Born into racing! Will never leave racing, ever! Its in my blood! |
2 May 2007, 17:03 (Ref:1905136) | #14 | |
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They did notice once last year (but let it go when i pointed out the number of Porsches getting ready to go) because they're anodised and look a bit nobby/Max Power...
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2 May 2007, 17:32 (Ref:1905164) | #15 | ||
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jonners Just to prove a point , how do we fit starter ring gears ? we warm them up and they fall on the flywheel. When they cool down you won't get it off in a hurry . End of lesson . Getting back to the original question the strength of aluminium size for size on a thread compared with steel is nowhere as good .
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2 May 2007, 17:50 (Ref:1905175) | #16 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 312
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Quote:
Watch out for some damn fine wheel nuts on ebay very soon, low reserve, very light so cheap to post!! |
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