Tech Issue 2011 Pirelli tyres

Marbot · 12 Jan 2011, 19:12 (Ref:2814865)

As I understand it, Pirelli are going to make and test tyres that improve the 'show'.

Paul Hembery, Pirelli Competition Director

“We can happily make a tyre that would last a whole race and not degrade, but we need to try and balance that with a good show. I think we want to do the show route,” said Hembery.

Apparently Pirelli were impressed by the teams needs to adapt their strategies in the 2010 Canadian GP (my personal favourite), and the excitement that the varying performances of individual cars and drivers brought to the race.

They are aiming for strategies that will not necessarily favour just the one mandatory stop.

Good or bad?

Pingguest · 12 Jan 2011, 19:18 (Ref:2814874)

It sounds pretty artificial to me.

Wims · 12 Jan 2011, 19:27 (Ref:2814884)

I thought the whole point of having a single tyre manufactorer was to increase the spectacle, so yeah, its good. Make terrible tyres for the spectators benefit

Marbot · 12 Jan 2011, 19:29 (Ref:2814887)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

It sounds pretty artificial to me.

It was "artificial" last season and the season before that, and......

Of course, we could have another tyre war, but who wants to spend money on that? It would also probably result in tyres that once again need to have grooves in them, and who wants that?!

But like the man says. He can make a tyre that lasts an entire race distance and doesn't degrade. Or, on the other hand, he could also probably supply a tyre that goes like stink and lasts for two laps!

jab · 12 Jan 2011, 19:29 (Ref:2814889)

As long as it works and isn't too dangerous, can't see what the problem would be

Marbot · 12 Jan 2011, 19:39 (Ref:2814894)

Don't think that the tyres used in Canada ever got to a "dangerous" state. They simply ran out of grip, and that's when the team and driver need to make a decision.

ECW Dan Selby · 12 Jan 2011, 20:04 (Ref:2814907)

I think it's brilliant.

At the end of the day, people believed the Bridgestone's were far too durable (saying that, it depends your viewpoint. It was a great advertisement for Bridgestone technology of course, but if Pirelli are blatantly saying "we're doing this to improve the show", then they're not losing reputation by clearly stating they're deliberating making a less durable tyre), so Pirelli have openly looked to alter this.

I can't see it being anything but a positive. If they arn't durable enough, you can count on the teams and drivers letting them know!

Selby

mattt · 12 Jan 2011, 20:09 (Ref:2814912)

Surely its not the tyre manufacturers fault if the tyres get into a dangerous state after several laps its the teams/drivers for not changing them and/or overdriving them

Sodemo · 12 Jan 2011, 20:38 (Ref:2814936)

If it were up to me, the tyres would be a lot wider anyway, especially the rears. Fronts should be 2-3cm wider, rears should be 10cm wider.

Incidentally, the introduction of grooves wasn't "needed" at all. It was the FIA's "quick fix" for rising corner speeds. If they had actually sat down and tackled the real problem back in 1997 - aero, then perhaps we wouldn't be in such a "bad state" as we are in now with regard to cars and how they generate grip.

chillibowl · 12 Jan 2011, 20:48 (Ref:2814943)

it seems to me a major flaw in the process to ask someone to pay for the privilege to supply tires and then expect them to produce something marginal for the benefit of the show.

statements like this make me feel that they are here for more than just marketing and branding purposes which is also a welcomed change.

ptclaus98 · 12 Jan 2011, 21:06 (Ref:2814948)

I think they should try to make a tyre that can barely get to the end and then a tyre that's about 2-3 secs a lap faster but has 1/3 less life

ECW Dan Selby · 12 Jan 2011, 21:13 (Ref:2814952)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattt

Surely its not the tyre manufacturers fault if the tyres get into a dangerous state after several laps its the teams/drivers for not changing them and/or overdriving them

No you're right, but the general consensus seemed to be that Bridgestone wanted to demonstrate the life in their tyres, and that having a tyre that'd 'go off' quickly may contradict that a little.

By openly declaring that it'd be "for the benefit of the show" (a term which I hate, by the way), then it perhaps gives them a bit of room as far as tyre design goes. As long as they state openly that the tyre is meant to 'go off' sooner rather than later, then I can't see it being an issue.

But hey, what do I know?

Selby

Spritle · 12 Jan 2011, 21:18 (Ref:2814954)

I think they should randomly throw tacks on to the track to improve the show. Nothing artificial about that...

... as long as no one gets hurt.

I don't think Pirelli could make a tire that lasts a full race distance if they wanted to. I owned one set of their Z rated and they were the worst tyres I ever owned.

wnut · 13 Jan 2011, 02:08 (Ref:2815035)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritle

I think they should randomly throw tacks on to the track to improve the show. Nothing artificial about that...

... as long as no one gets hurt.

I don't think Pirelli could make a tire that lasts a full race distance if they wanted to. I owned one set of their Z rated and they were the worst tyres I ever owned.

Ditto this absolutely reflects my feelings about performance differentiation through random component failure, and incidentally my experience with several sets of Pirelli's.

I suppose using driver skill to differentiate performance would be too big an ask. F1 is supposed to be motor racing after all.

**GTRMagic** · 13 Jan 2011, 03:15 (Ref:2815052)

A different rubber colour per team perhaps?

VIVA GT · 13 Jan 2011, 08:49 (Ref:2815144)

Whoever supplies the tyres for F1 is in a difficult position.
To showcase their abilities as tyre manufacturers they would want to produce a tyre with excellent grip charateristics, that doesn't degrade during a whole race distance. However, this isn't good 'for the show'.
If they produce tyres that don't last the distance, or at least degrade 'too quickly' (whoever determines what that is), they'll get a bad press because Driver's will bemoan the fact that 'everything was going fine until the rubbish tyres went off'.
Personally I'd rather see the tyres having a more edgier life, not because this 'improves the show' by itself. What it will do however is highlight the skills of drivers and chassis designers who are then able to get the most benefit out of these marginal objects. That will not only 'improve the show', but I feel add another dimension where skill and ability can actually make a difference in what is increasingly becoming more of a spec. series.

Pingguest · 13 Jan 2011, 20:30 (Ref:2815392)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

It was "artificial" last season and the season before that, and......

Of course, we could have another tyre war, but who wants to spend money on that? It would also probably result in tyres that once again need to have grooves in them, and who wants that?!

But like the man says. He can make a tyre that lasts an entire race distance and doesn't degrade. Or, on the other hand, he could also probably supply a tyre that goes like stink and lasts for two laps!

What counts for the engines also counts for the tyres: getting high performance tyres shouldn't only be a matter of development, but a matter of strategy too. Ban tyre changes, mandate the use of all-weather tyres and get rid of all other tyre regulations.

wnut · 14 Jan 2011, 01:47 (Ref:2815503)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pingguest

What counts for the engines also counts for the tyres: getting high performance tyres shouldn't only be a matter of development, but a matter of strategy too. Ban tyre changes, mandate the use of all-weather tyres and get rid of all other tyre regulations.

How about 8 tyres plus a set of wets for 4 races?
Punctures - tough luck.

Pingguest · 14 Jan 2011, 09:44 (Ref:2815594)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

How about 8 tyres plus a set of wets for 4 races?
Punctures - tough luck.

Personally I don't like that kind of artificially created endurance. Teams should prepare a car for the race and then let it all over to their driver. After the race the teams should be able to fully prepare the car for the next one.

JohnSSC · 14 Jan 2011, 12:13 (Ref:2815631)

Wasn't Pirelli tasked to create a more "interesting" tyre by F1 when they were awarded the contract? This is not a decision they are making on their own, so it is not a question of what Pirelli can or can't do, but what they have been contracted to do.

Sodemo · 14 Jan 2011, 13:14 (Ref:2815651)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Wasn't Pirelli tasked to create a more "interesting" tyre by F1 when they were awarded the contract? This is not a decision they are making on their own, so it is not a question of what Pirelli can or can't do, but what they have been contracted to do.

I'd be interested to know how exactly that contract was worded. How does one qualify an "interesting" tyre? One that wears out after 10 laps? 20 laps? On which cars? HRT, or Red Bull?

I just think the teams will start moaning again and then Pirelli will be forced to go conservative and have tyres that are ultra consistent.

stripedcat · 14 Jan 2011, 13:17 (Ref:2815653)

I think from what has come out of Pirelli they are making a fairly conservative tyre very similar to Bridgestone. I don't think we'll see too many repeats of the Canada race next year, sadly.

ECW Dan Selby · 14 Jan 2011, 14:28 (Ref:2815687)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'd be interested to know how exactly that contract was worded. How does one qualify an "interesting" tyre? One that wears out after 10 laps? 20 laps? On which cars? HRT, or Red Bull?

I just think the teams will start moaning again and then Pirelli will be forced to go conservative and have tyres that are ultra consistent.

This is exactly what I think will happen.

X and Y team will hate them and say the tyres are too marginal and too dangerous, because their car happens to chew them up...

Selby

**Peter Mallett** · 14 Jan 2011, 15:55 (Ref:2815726)

They should make a tyre that lasts the entire race. End of.

Marbot · 14 Jan 2011, 17:55 (Ref:2815792)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

They should make a tyre that lasts the entire race. End of.

Bridgestone did that last season IIRC. Only the regulations prevented it from happening.

I have no doubt that, even in its first season, Pirelli would be able to do the same.

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