[WEC] Gordon Murray T.50 Hypercar

[joeb]

What's this? New hyper car contender?

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...n-f1-successor

[S griffin]

Now there’s a name I would love to see back, Mr Murray

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by joeb

What's this? New hyper car contender?

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...n-f1-successor

Fantastic!!! Now we could have 2 types of cars with V12 Cosworth engine, although this is a 3.9 L.
it's a shame that they have to remove the car’s downforce-generating fan.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by joeb

What's this? New hyper car contender?

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...n-f1-successor

Ooh, I see an opportunity for a conspiracy theory!

Gordon Murray > Cosworth and TVR
TVR > Gordon Murray, Cosworth and Rebellion

I know, tenuous link, but the engine clearly exists, and Rebellion have talked about using 2020/21 as a year to develop a hypercar powertrain installed in their grandfathered R13 chassis.

[TF110]

I hope these type of open rules stay for a while so we can get these unique engines. Electric bores me and I'm not big on the electric everything will save the world. So these things can stay for a long while and I wouldn't mind. I just want to make it to a race to hear and see them in person before they're gone.

Two V12's with different sizes and such would be great.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

I hope these type of open rules stay for a while so we can get these unique engines. Electric bores me and I'm not big on the electric everything will save the world. So these things can stay for a long while and I wouldn't mind. I just want to make it to a race to hear and see them in person before they're gone.

Two V12's with different sizes and such would be great.

But it IS the future, whether one wants it or not. And even if not electric cars, then other alternative sources will be. The motorsport industry can't just sit doing nothing while the road car industry moves on, otherwise you get NASCAR and it's aging crowd watching wrestling. These rules really feel like a step backwards and the biggest hint of that is the heavy lumbering Aston Martin that doesn't even bother to have standard hybrid system the actual road car does.

Besides electrification and/or other alternative power sources extremely likely will lead back to LMP1 esq technology war. The only thing these rules lead is balance of performance and complaining and sandbagging.

[Aysedasi]

Well just maybe some of us don't have our hatred of BOP at the forefront of our minds with every concept or theory that finds its way onto the forum. Sorry mate, but this turgid repetition is really beginning to get pretty dull.....

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Chiana

But it IS the future, whether one wants it or not. And even if not electric cars, then other alternative sources will be. The motorsport industry can't just sit doing nothing while the road car industry moves on, otherwise you get NASCAR and it's aging crowd watching wrestling. These rules really feel like a step backwards and the biggest hint of that is the heavy lumbering Aston Martin that doesn't even bother to have standard hybrid system the actual road car does.

Besides electrification and/or other alternative power sources extremely likely will lead back to LMP1 esq technology war. The only thing these rules lead is balance of performance and complaining and sandbagging.

It is the future, and I agree. But when powered ships came along, sailing remained as a sport, it just became irrelevant to ship design and production.

Motorsport can do the same. Electric is the future of transportation. It doesn't have to be the future of motorsport.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It is the future, and I agree. But when powered ships came along, sailing remained as a sport, it just became irrelevant to ship design and production.

Motorsport can do the same. Electric is the future of transportation. It doesn't have to be the future of motorsport.

Exactly, and i think we've already hit that inflection point. Plus we still race horses.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by joeb

Exactly, and i think we've already hit that inflection point. Plus we still race horses.

Joeb nailed it right on the head. We still race horses and I've only seen a couple dozen being taken to work, yes I'm being serious there I actually know people who did routinely in Virginia ride a horse to work in the summer. And a few times in the winter snow.
But it will become cars racing more like F1 in every series. No one thinks that's MB or Ferrari or Renault street car parts in that car, it's the idea the company could make that and you'll help by supporting the manufacturer, buying a car, the sponsors, buying their stuff, or just buying tickets and enjoying the event. Whether any of it is truly relevant is somewhat meaningless, even in GT3 the cars are so different than anything you can buy to drive to work. The GT4 and TCR cars aren't even close, but there still will be cars and means of transportation beyond mass transit.

Now I do completely agree on the insanely high weight numbers and Aston Martin being cheap *******s and stripping out most of the Valkyrie fancy bits. There's a middle ground to be found and hopefully the ACO can accidentally find it

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by joeb

Exactly, and i think we've already hit that inflection point. Plus we still race horses.

Where weights are used for BoP reasons and in handicap races used as success ballast!

[TF110]

I don't think the majority of people are wanting electric as their future, not for transportation or motoring entertainment. It's only looking like the future because governments are pushing this bogus go-green, no-emissions stuff based on whacky inconclusive 'science' designed to scare people into believing its 'the end of the world soon so do as we say'. I'm old enough to remember they said this for the past 3 decades at least and even before then.

Sorry, I don't get excited about whistling cars. Formula E is boring and slow. I love the loud exhausts and engines. I love the different noises and the wails, crackles and pops and wastegate chirps. It will be a sad day if mundane electric replaces things like this V12.

[Mike E]

I didn't realise we had a horse and yacht racing thread on here...

Anyway, I hope Murray puts his money (or someone else's money) where his mouth is. I would like to selfishly enjoy a last hurrah of V12 music before our sport becomes completely socially unacceptable.

I also regret the death of efficient, hybrid-driven performance because that was a path to making driving around in circles seem less pointlessly destructive. But that's a story for a different thread.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

I didn't realise we had a horse and yacht racing thread on here...

Anyway, I hope Murray puts his money (or someone else's money) where his mouth is. I would like to selfishly enjoy a last hurrah of V12 music before our sport becomes completely socially unacceptable.

I also regret the death of efficient, hybrid-driven performance because that was a path to making driving around in circles seem less pointlessly destructive. But that's a story for a different thread.

Indeed, this thread started as a car announcement, and turned into something else completely!

If this car were proposed by anybody else we would just brush it off as a pipe dream, and perhaps this is too. I guess we are just more inclined to give it some credibility since the designer has such a history.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Ooh, I see an opportunity for a conspiracy theory!

Gordon Murray > Cosworth and TVR
TVR > Gordon Murray, Cosworth and Rebellion

I know, tenuous link, but the engine clearly exists, and Rebellion have talked about using 2020/21 as a year to develop a hypercar powertrain installed in their grandfathered R13 chassis.

I like the way you think!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by TF110

I don't think the majority of people are wanting electric as their future, not for transportation or motoring entertainment.

I don't think the majority care. We care because we're car freaks. But normal people buy 1.4L diesel Toyota Corollas and a Ford Focus. They don't care what the car is - as long as it doesn't break and gets them to work. If electric becomes cheaper and easier then people will move to that.

I too love a V12, but it's hard for me to say that I really want to keep the ICE for road cars when I have a 1.4L Ford Fiesta diesel. It doesn't really get the old juices flowing.

I'll take an EV for the road when it becomes viable. I don't mind FE, but I want the majorty of my racing big, loud and smelly.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It is the future, and I agree. But when powered ships came along, sailing remained as a sport, it just became irrelevant to ship design and production.



Motorsport can do the same. Electric is the future of transportation. It doesn't have to be the future of motorsport.

The future of road cars is actually not just electric, but also autonomous... and that's really going to break the connection between road and track. Though I could perhaps see a setup where Le Mans reverts back to being a two driver race, with the computer taking over the stints of the third driver.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Though I could perhaps see a setup where Le Mans reverts back to being a two driver race, with the computer taking over the stints of the third driver.

Wash your mouth out.

[Aysedasi]

With something really unpleasant.......

[Juntos]

It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life interesting, but I can't see Murray finding 30, 20 or 10 million euro to finance is Le Mans return.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Juntos

It's the possibility of having a dream come true that makes life interesting, but I can't see Murray finding 30, 20 or 10 million euro to finance is Le Mans return.

Maybe the answer could be in what has already mentioned by Bentley03 at the beginning of this thread.

Ooh, I see an opportunity for a conspiracy theory!

Gordon Murray > Cosworth and TVR
TVR > Gordon Murray, Cosworth and Rebellion

I know, tenuous link, but the engine clearly exists, and Rebellion have talked about using 2020/21 as a year to develop a hypercar powertrain installed in their grandfathered R13 chassis.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The future of road cars is actually not just electric, but also autonomous... and that's really going to break the connection between road and track. Though I could perhaps see a setup where Le Mans reverts back to being a two driver race, with the computer taking over the stints of the third driver.

That would make it quite easy to BoP the cars.

[GingerPixel]

I would love to be wrong, but this seems like a total pipe dream.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Maybe the answer could be in what has already mentioned by Bentley03 at the beginning of this thread.

Even if you put Rebellion, Cosworth, and TVR together, you would still be short on budget. Rebellion is cutting the expenses in endurance racing, Cosworth won't put a penny and TVR is investing £100M in the Ebbw Vale factory. Pessimists are usually right and optimists are usually wrong but all the great changes have been accomplished by optimists.

[hondafan37]

Gordon Murray evaluating WEC hypercar entry with T.50

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...y-t50/4602969/

Gordon Murray Said:

*He has already met with WEC promoter and Le Mans 24 Hours organiser the Automobile Club de l'Ouest and the FIA.
*we have had some customers who are very interested in racing the car.
*We are about to announce very soon a tie-up with an F1 team for the use a wind-tunnel in the development of the T.50.
*he revealed that he planned to meet with GT racing boss Stephane Ratel so that he can "understand what the general thinking is on the direction of sportscar racing".
*Deliveries of the 100 T.50 road cars, which will be powered by a bespoke four-litre V12 built by Cosworth, will take place through 2022, but Murray didn't rule out having a hypercar racer out on track earlier.
*he also expressed reservations about the 1100kg minimum weight for the hypercar class. The T.50 road car will weigh 980kg, while a track day version of which 25 examples will be built is due to hit the scales at 890kg.
"A racing version of the T.50 would probably come out at about 900kg, so bolting in a couple of hundred kilogrammes of ballast doesn't appeal".